Revocation and stepmom
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Adding someone to your Dad’s account is a mistake that can justify you being removed as POA if someone learned of this and wanted you removed. Joint account holders can withdraw all the money. Instead of protecting his funds you gave ownership rights of his money to someone else.Does his POA specifically state that you have the right to assign your authority to another person of your choice? I’m trying to understand your reference to “giving permanent control to your stepmother” and why you would be training her to pay his bills when this is your job as POA.You’ve mentioned that your stepmother has repeatedly visited an attorney, that you’ve had detailed discussions with her about her not being included in the will, and that she is trying to get assigned as the new DPOA. Have YOU visited an attorney? Just because English is not her first language, does not mean your step-mother is a fool. She’s been married to him for 20 years, is now caring for him at the end of his life, and she rightfully (in my opinion) may feel that she deserves at least part of their assets as well as control over his care and their financial life.What documentation do you have that your father does not have testamentary capacity? The bar for testamentary capacity is quite low. What makes you sure that his retirement account is safe? You may have other surprises. Maybe your stepmother also has a new POA for healthcare decisions and you won’t have any say in that either. If you want to have the legal right to care for your Dad, and you want to protect a possible inheritance, I suggest you see an elder law attorney asap rather than thinking everything will work out on its own in 2 days.This is also a time to educate yourself on stage 4 liver disease, dementia, and caring for a person with these conditions.0
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You should be working with a local eldercare law attorney on this problem. Yours is not a good situation to be in, but so much is going to be dependent upon local laws. Members of this forum give very good advice, but so much is dependent upon your local laws. Please consult with a local good attorney. Good luck!0
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Your stepmother means business. She may not speak English well, but this is a pretty aggressive move. Please do not underestimate her, this sounds like a coup to take over complete control. You mention that she has been talking to an attorney, has she told you what they are discussing? Please see a certified elder law attorney ASAP to see what can be done. Just because you didn't find recent documents giving her authority doesn't mean they do not exist. And as mentioned above, the bar for competency is pretty low, just having an Alzheimers diagnosis doesn't automatically make your dad incompetent. Good luck.0
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There are no baby steps here. Your stepmother is out to gain total control over her husband's finances and will succeed in doing so, UNLESS YOU GET LEGAL COUNSEL. Like - yesterday.
Today was pretty rough. My stepmother of 20 years submitted a revocation and had me temporarily removed from my Dad's bank account that I had setup to pay his bills and where I have DPOA. All for $26k. I made the mistake of putting her on the account as a joint account holder. We'd been using it together to pay bills. I'd been going over nights and weekends teaching her how to pay bills as English is not her first language.
Big mistake here. Lesson learned. You gave her the tools to gain online control over your Dad's finances. When you had both the legal responsibility to do this and you make him more vulnerable by doing so.Stop enabling this dynamic. She has a vested interest for herself and her daughter. As DPOA, it is your responsibility to pay his bills.
I got an alert saying I'd been removed from the account this morning
HUGE red flag here. Like, 10 of them waving. She didn't talk to you first? She just did it? After you took the inclusive (if very unwise) step of putting her on the account? Handrwriting is again on the wall in capital letters.
. The bank is currently reviewing all the documents submitted and I think eventually it will be obvious and work itself out Especially, once they realize the revocation was created after my Dad's Alzheimer's diagnosis.
Exactly how are they going to realize this unless you submit and fight for your DPOA and your Dad? Medical documentation/need for proxy documentation could be indicated since there is a dispute. Bank is not AT ALL interested in helping you. They want the least amount of legal headaches for themselves. Having a diagnosis of Alz does NOT automatically make a new DPOA void. What is in question is his need for proxy (does he fully understand what he is doing). This can require evaluation via a Geriatric Psychiatrist and Neuropsychologist.
FYI, the account should only have been set up in your Dad's name with your name, Durable Power of Attorney on it along with the checks. That huge mis step of putting your stepmother on the account may have made these marital assets. Never do this without a CELA consult (www.nelf.org)
I'd recently recovered some funds from my Dad's former credit union, that was hacked/scammed under my ADLO and his SO's watch which is my hesitancy to give permanent control to stepmother. They've also almost lost the house thru lien/auction and not paying property taxes. Both are now cleared up. Stepmother is officially in denial about Dad's diagnosis and is following ADLO's orders now. Fortunately, I did think of a way to get the funds back legally and in good faith .
Be careful here. Flow of money and the timing matter a lot. Did you know that there is a 5 year lookback period to qualify for Medicaid for long term care? Assets moved improperly can cost you 5 years of long term care.
I am hoping for a positive resolution in the next 2 days. Lesson learned. Sigh.
I do not think you realize the seriousness of this situation if you have not retained legal counsel to protect Dad and yourself. DPOA's can be held legally accountable for misuse of funds-no matter who accessed them from failure to act.
I do know my Dad's retirement account is safe and will be working on SSI next.
I would assume that the account is in his name with you named as Durable Power of Attorney - with the account secured against access by the stepmother (and Dad) through strong security paramters, passwords only you have access to and 2 step sign ins that don't involve just your cell phone number which is easily obtained? 2 step verification alone is not enough. You should also get alerts for account sign ins and transactions.
Any suggestions? Money makes people nuts. Baby steps, right?
Freeze your Dad's credit after checking his credit report online. Easy to do.
Get to that certified elder law attorney STAT. Dad's entire care is at stake. And stepmom out to get money.
No baby steps. Get a lawyer. I apologize for being so blunt, but there is everything at stake here.
I will add that I understand you are fond of stepmother and despite your Dad's pre-nup that you feel she needs to be cared for. But, there are mis steps along the way that can create huge problems for all of you. That CELA will help you sort it out. Don't rely on happenstance.
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bottom line.....when a POA/DPOA is in effect the agent (YOU) is the legal fiduciary and can/ will be held accountable
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Omg this thread reads like a nightmare. Get an attorney. Secure the rest of the accounts immediately, stop talking to her about bills and finances. You have been bamboozled.0
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I'm going to start by saying, as others have said, that you need to see a lawyer.
But, I do not automatically agree that you are being bamboozled. Your father and stepmother have been married 20 years. 20 years is not a marry and grab the estate situation.
I have no idea of the exact nature of what is going on. You need to see a lawyer. But, you need to realize that the spouse of a 20 year marriage has some legal estate rights in most states (unless they are signed off individually).
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What JJ401 said.
It is hard for me to see a spouse of 20 years as only an interloper or gold digger who is automatically to be treated like she is trying to break into adult step-children's inheritance if she seeks some access and control over she and her longtime husband's finances. Especially with him declining. She'd be a fool not to want some control over their resources. Each of us would want that for ourselves. As a stepmom of very, very grown people myself, I have experienced some of this automatic hostility (btw, I had nothing to do with the ending of my DH prior marriage. It was over many years before we ever met). So, for the adult offspring to assume they are the rightful ones to make decisions and/or know what is best for my DH (and me) when he was diagnosed, was an unpleasant surprise that I had to shut down. It is inappropriate and caused unneeded stress in my situation anyway.
It sounds like complicated family dynamics as many of us have, and losing a LO before our very eyes makes everything so hard. I hope you are able to get a measure of peace and maybe consider how and if you'd be willing to detach somewhat. She is his wife, after all. He chose her long before his brain decline set in. And it seems natural that she would be focused on how she might be able to survive and support them both without someone else (who doesn't agree with her), calling the shots. I think you said he indicated she is to be cared for financially at some point right? Maybe she can and should have the right to make those specific decisions for her DH and herself at this point. Wishing all of you well in this journey.
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Victoria2020, I did read that thread. (And I suspect Butterfly Wings did too.)
The documents cited are from a “a couple of years before they met”. We don’t know the law in that state regarding these documents and a marriage timeline.
Dad registered an ante-nup. You can register anything you want, but when it’s time for enforcement it has to conform to law. Certain retirement funds (401k and in some places IRAs) go to the legal spouse, no matter who is listed as beneficiary, unless the spouse has signed off. Some states have dower rights. We have no idea what this ante-nup actually says. And this ante-nup may be challengeable in court for any number of reasons.
I stand by what I said. I don’t think we should all be ready to jump on the bamboozled train for a 20 year marriage.
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Right now the original poster does not seem to realize the critical nature of this situation.
She may very well become penniless to act for Dad's care through the actions of her stepmother to help her father.
DPOA's have the legal responsibility to represent the person who named them.
Her multiple mis-steps are potentially disastrous for her Dad. Any financial account should only have her Dad;s name on it also with hers as Jane Doe, Durable Power of Attorney.
Figuring out things on her own is not working. Adding stepmom to the account was a strategic disaster enabling stepmom to have control where she should not have access, as well as now creating a huge problem that those funds could be considered hers because the name was put on the account. the DPOA created exposure for the person she is supposed to be making competent financial decisions for.
The CELA can also help determine the best way to address the woman's 20 year marriage and stepmom's financial rights.
Right now, things are heading in an unproductive situation for all 3 individuals. It's a mess!
But have hope - with proper legal counsel things will work out, the OP will have peace of mind, Dad will get care, stepmom will be considered. But won't be able to take control of his care money to give to her daughter.
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We don't know the whole story here. There may well be reasons that the OP's father put her in control, despite a 20 year marriage. The wife may also have a legal right to some or all of the money. We don't even know what state they live in. The best advice is for her to consult an attorney ASAP --- hopefully she is already working on that, and will come back here with an update.0
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We don't know the whole story here. There may well be reasons that the OP's father put her in control,
Yes, there may have been reasons the father put the OP in control. But, whatever they were they were before the marriage. (The OP said the documents predated the marriage.) They may or may not be the wishes he had after the marriage or in the last several years. This tale is the reason that legal documents need to be updated every so often, and especially after life events (marriages, births, divorces).
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Such good information with the bottom line...get to an Elder Law Attorney.
I think what the DPOA spells out will trump the wife.
I hope you will share the information you get from the attorney so that others can be helped too.
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I've learned alot here. I have signed up to consult with a CELA attorney early next month which was the first available time. One of 25 in the state of Texas. I want to be as fair as possible, but it is hard. My stepmother is furious, I had POAs in place for some credit cards and other minor creditors. She went as far to call Citibank, impersonate me and remove my POA. I called the next day and realized what she had done, I was told this was the only way it could have happened, as she didn't have authority on the account to begin with. She'd been using one of my Dad's business cards as a personal one. One of the minor creditors I have access to is AT&T so I checked her calls. 5 calls to Citibank including a 54 minute one. Citibank froze the account pending a review. Got really nasty texts from her in response as I am now "playing dirty games." I was trying to work with her until we came to some sort of agreement. We (siblings) had offered to create a trust for the rest of her lifetime in lieu of her being unnamed in the will, which would postpone inheritance for myself or my siblings. She refused repeatedly saying she'd abide by the will which doesn't make sense to me. That is when she started submitting the revocation to some of the financial institutions. I just want my Dad to get the care he needs honestly. I'd also like his retirement funds to last. Under his care with stepmother, they've almost lost the paid off house thru unpaid property taxes and a permit tax lien, got scammed of roughly $166k (an estimate), paid full coverage car insurance on 3 older vehicles to 2 different insurance companies, and let home repairs go undone, at one point none of the 5 bathrooms were functional. He and stepmom have been refusing medical care, medication and regular appointments. I had arranged for a geriatric doctor specializing in housecalls to look into his care after I found out about a scary fall with a head injury. He'd put a hole in one of the bathroom wooden cabinets. Stepmother didn't call for any medical assistance. He had dried blood on him from the fall several days later when I found out. He has stage 4 liver disease, high cholesterol and moderate dementia - alzheimers. I was told he scored a 14/30 on the Montreal Cognitive test. The BBVA determination is set for tomorrow. I am tired of the drama and now I continue to be persona non-grata because I didn't roll over.
a tired Mikela in Texas
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Mikela,
I hope you are able to get some rest. It is clear that you care about your dad deeply, and are trying to adjust to both his declining health, and the other financial and health care management expectations that have rested on your shoulders. Good that you got a CELA appointment, though sorry you have to wait. I hope it provides the clear next steps that we all believe it will. Would be good to reclaim some of your time and attention for yourself, rather than managing all these other things that are so full of conflict.
I'm not really crazy about managing my DH's life (sometimes against his will) now that AD requires it. As you alluded to, it is a thankless full-time job. I would not want to be in your shoes, feeling that I had to manage my parent and stepparent's lives in this way. I hope this resolves for all of you with a clear compromise that is fair to all and especially puts health and safety supports in place for your LO.
Would you consider calling the hospice program of your choice to evaluate your dad's current condition? They could give some expert advice about his current health status and likely provide some (free) high quality support services almost immediately. Visiting nurse weekly, care aids up to several days/week, meds (free and delivered), hygiene and incontinence supplies, social worker, chaplain if desired. It sounds like he and his wife could benefit from this right away. Wishing you peace.
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Mikela it sounds like you are doing a great job in a very difficult situation. I think the hospice suggestion from Butterflywings is a good one- though I think hospital evaluation remains an option if you need more medical information quickly. Do keep us posted....0
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Dear Mikela, I hope things work out well for all of you. I can only imagine what you are feeling. I’m glad you have an appointment scheduled with a CELA. That should be a huge help. I agree with the others about hospice. Maybe it would bring you a little bit of peace to have “professional eyes” on your Dad and his wife. I have a gut feeling she may be early stage dementia. I just want to wish you well. Please keep us posted.0
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I know hospice is for end of life care. Woul they turn down Dad for not meeting a certain timeframe or threshold of severity?
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hospice criteria for dementia are a lot more loose than for other end of life situations like cancer. No harm in calling for an evaluation; if not appropriate they will tell you. But I have a sense that it will be completely appropriate....look around, there are a lot of other threads on this issue if you want more information.0
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Because you will at least get some information that could be helpful I suggest interviewing several Hospices.
Most important is seeing an attorney!!!!!
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I have reached out to a hospice program to get an appointment set up for an evaluation. I've delegated it to my older brother who will go out to the house and be there when they arrive. He has medical POA for my Dad.
We (siblings) have a consult with a CELA on the 8th, the first one I could wrangle.
The main bank account is now frozen and I am expecting a call from their legal department on Tuesday. My stepmother has already impersonated me to Citibank and removed me (I was already POA of record at that time). I called the next day and resupplied POAs to Citibank who froze the account for 7-10 days as a result. She also reported a Amex business card lost and had them reissue it. I had frozen the account because of her actions before to only what was already set to draft. It will remain frozen even under the "new" card. I've already sent DPOAs to all Dad's creditors, doctors and utilities. Her actions are now just muddying matters. She disconnected his SSA online account and portal for healthcare. I've reset the healthcare portal and I can only take off and deal with the SSA account in person. She actually called AT&T and made changes when I was the only authorized user for the account. Sigh..
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Impersonating you puts her at risk of prosecution should you or one of the other entities press charges. be sure to mention this to the CELA when you see them.
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Yes, do tell the attorney and ask if it would be prudent for her/him to send the lady a letter.
Good for you for all of the actions taken. You should never have been put in that position.
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She refused repeatedly saying she'd abide by the will which doesn't make sense to me.
You have said that the POAs predate the marriage. Does the will you have predate the marriage? If so, since this is a 20 year marriage, there may be another will made during the marriage.
When you speak to the lawyer you can ask specifically about whether a will that may be produced would be legal. But, be aware that the legal definition of ability to sign is low (although the specifics vary by state) and the date of the new will would matter. And I believe the burden would be on you to prove inability at the time of signing.
You previously stated that your dad and his wife had an antenuptial. Lawyers often recommend that when you do a nuptial agreement, you do wills that confirm to it. Is it possible that when he did the antenup, he redid his will? If you know the lawyer who prepared the antenup, you may be able to find out if there was a will made at that time.
And in some states, if you get married after making a last will and do not rewrite it after the wedding, your spouse gets a share of your estate as if you had no will, unless you have a premarital agreement, made a provision for your spouse in the will, or stated specifically in the will that you intended not to mention your prospective spouse.
It’s complicated.
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Well didn't she turn out to be the crafty one (as many of us suspected). Continue to keep the accounts secure, see the attorney, see if he qualifies for hospice and let her fight you in court.
I also had suspected there had been issues with finances before, and make sure you have documentation of that to present in a court if necessary, it will strengthen your case. I think she has her own best interest in mind, not necessarily your father's.0 -
This woman has been married to the father for 20 years. If she has bamboozed or is crafty, that is certainly a very long con. I don’t think that the members of this board have enough information to denigrate this woman. We are reading only one side of this problem, and while the original poster is relating events as complete, there may be other factors at play here that we are not party to.
We all have different perspectives. I know my perspective has changed after more than 20 years in a second marriage. I know that my husband’s kids have a very skewed perspective of our singular and joint finances, and that if they were writing here, they would present me as bamboozling their father and crafty. Neither of which is the case.
The phone calls the wife made are on their face terrible and damning. But, if there are facts we are not privy to, they may be explainable.
It is good that Mikela and siblings are seeing a lawyer. This needs a lawyer to sort out.
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JJ401 wrote:And we ALL recommended an attorney and she’s got one.
This woman has been married to the father for 20 years. If she has bamboozed or is crafty, that is certainly a very long con. I don’t think that the members of this board have enough information to denigrate this woman. We are reading only one side of this problem, and while the original poster is relating events as complete, there may be other factors at play here that we are not party to.
We all have different perspectives. I know my perspective has changed after more than 20 years in a second marriage. I know that my husband’s kids have a very skewed perspective of our singular and joint finances, and that if they were writing here, they would present me as bamboozling their father and crafty. Neither of which is the case.
The phone calls the wife made are on their face terrible and damning. But, if there are facts we are not privy to, they may be explainable.
It is good that Mikela and siblings are seeing a lawyer. This needs a lawyer to sort out.
Your responses kind of gave away the fact that your bias is toward the stepmother, and that bias gives its own skewed perspective. POA is daughter and that’s what’s important. And I believe impersonating someone so you can get your grubby hands on money is showing exactly who she is.0
Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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