Why is he so amorous now?

Palmetto Peg

My DH has gone way over the top recently with his affection for me.  He is constantly grabbing me and trying to put his hand up my shirt or down my pants - even in the grocery store!  At home he tells me I am beautiful and he loves me and he wants to make love to me all day long.  He, of course, like most men his age has ED and our love life has changed significantly, but I find it very wearing to just be grabbed, kissed, and followed every where I go with declarations of love!  I know it might sound silly to some who are being treated meanly, but he is relentless!  I literally cannot cook a meal without him standing behind me hugging me and grabbing my breasts (sorry - TMI?) Is this just a stage in the disease?  Will I wish at some point we could go back to this?  Even in front of the children he is acting this way - much to their amusement and my embarrassment.  Is there a way to redirect his affection a little?

White Crane

Dear Peg, my husband started doing the same thing a few months ago. He also has ED but you would never know what from his behavior. The groping is both  frustrating and humiliating, especially when it’s done  in front of an adult child or in public. My DH was also having trouble sleeping and was keeping me awake at night wanting sex. He is now on 25 mg of Seraquel  and is sleeping through the night. The groping hadn’t  stopped completely, but it’s better. I enjoy a hug and a kiss but not being grabbed. I hope you can find some help with this problem. Maybe his neurologist could prescribe something.

Crushed

There is constant comment here about the desirability of medicating  sexually interested demented males as if it is a disease.  IMHO it is not.  Dementia reduces inhibition.  Sexuality  is usually a convenience issue for caretakers not a disease.   DW became unquestionably less inhibited  in the early and mid stages of the disease.  In fact in the early stages it probably blinded me to the disease since the affection was so desirable.  

IMHO  This is UNWANTED not DISEASED behavior although it is unquestionably a product of the disease combined with natural urges. Seroquel is a powerful anti Psychotic with significant side effects especially falling  (NB DW uses it)

Jo C.

Most often that behavior and disinhibition comes from the damage to the frontal lobe of the brain.  My step-dad, (Alzheimer's ) began to exhibit such behaviors with the daytime care aides.  Talking to him about it did no good and we were going to lose the care aide if the behavior did not stop.

We saw our Neurologist who put him on a low dose of Seroquel; things improved a bit but still somewhat of an issue; Neuro then upped the Seroquel just a tidge, and the inappropriate behavior stopped.  Thank goodness.

J.

Palmetto Peg

I agree that dementia appears to take away any filters about appropriate/inappropriate behavior.  If we as caretakers are to give us so much in order to take care of our loved ones, it feels right to me that unwanted affection is as undesirable as unwanted violence, and we do still have rights to our own bodies.  I am waiting on an appointment with a neurologist which is scheduled for October, but if it persists I will definitely mention it to the doctor.  My DH grabs me all night, too, and disrupts my sleep, so it is an important issue to me.  Thanks for the input!

Gig Harbor

I completely agree Peg. If you are not interested in having sex with him it is your right not to have to give in to him. Call it what you will - undesired, inappropriate or annoying. It is your body. You are not there to satisfy his desires all day and all night. It almost seems like having sex with a child since their behavior becomes so child like. As Crushed once said “no one is entitled to a caregiver” I add “no one is entitled to a sex partner on demand”. The marriage you once had is no longer due to the disease. Don’t feel guilty for not giving him everything he wants especially since you don’t want it. You are as important as he is.

SATX

Wow.

I've got the opposite problem.  My smoking hot DW hasn't been interested in intimacy or affection for 4 years.  Frankly, based on her current state I'm not sure that I'd be interested myself - might feel like child abuse.

This 'roommate' is nothing like the passionate tigress that I once couldn't keep tamed - and didn't want to.

I read somewhere on this forum "show me 5 dementia cases and I'll show you 5 different displays of dementia (or something similar).  So true.

I've still got libido with no good options for dealing with it.

This stuff sucks.  I'm learning from all these wonderful new caregiving friends is that 'common sense' plays the biggest role in how we deal with and care for our broken LO.

Rescue mom

It’s so common for PWD to lose their social filters. They no longer realize their behavior is inappropriate, extreme, or unwanted. I’m sorry I don’t have any immediate solutions for this one, but many have said certain Rx drugs help. Otherwise, it will probably go away after a while, as many such behaviors do, but the time in between is tough. I totally agree and support what Gig Harbr said.

abc123

Dear Peg and White Crane, I'm sorry you both are going thru this. It's the pitts.

abc123

Crushed, blow it out your wahzoo.

Crushed

abc123 wrote:

Crushed, blow it out your wahzoo.

I do realize that treating many types of  sexuality as normal can be distressing to anyone brought up in the tradition of beating children  who masturbate.   I went to Catholic school   Asylums used to torture mental patients who showed sexual interest.  Later they just sedated them into virtual unconsciousness.  It's a behavior issue  not a disease.  As with violence the goal is the LEAST restrictive restraints  not the fastest sedative

I  fully agree that no one has to have sex with anyone without consent

 But IMHO that is not  the issue here, 

Stuck in the middle

Actually, what we are discussing here is sexual assault.  

If no one has to submit to being groped, it follows that everyone has the right to protect themselves from unwanted groping.  Psych meds are less restrictive than physical restraints, IMO.  What can we use that is less restrictive than psych meds while still offering protection?

M1

Cut to the chase: Drugs are your best bet to control it PP-seroquel or similar as Jo said.

Crushed

Stuck in the middle wrote:

Actually, what we are discussing here is sexual assault.  

If no one has to submit to being groped, it follows that everyone has the right to protect themselves from unwanted groping.  Psych meds are less restrictive than physical restraints, IMO.  What can we use that is less restrictive than psych meds while still offering protection?

Sorry where did you study law?     It is one thing to protect yourself it is  another to drug up a helpless person

There is a huge body of law on this.

Crushed

M1 wrote:

Cut to the chase: Drugs are your best bet to control it PP-seroquel or similar as Jo said.

In general you are not allowed to solve your problem by drugging a helpless person.


Its flat out illegal in a nursing home  

https://www.medpagetoday.com/geriatrics/dementia/23829

 

Geriatrics>Dementia Drugging Dementia Patients Serious Problem, Panel Says

by Joyce Frieden,News Editor, MedPage Today December 9, 2010

 

Chemical Restraints – How Nursing Homes Use Drugs To Control Residents

All too many Americans believe that the sedate, docile elderly people they’ve come to expect in nursing homes are a normal state of affairs. It’s not unreasonable to assume this behavior is a result of aging or chronic illnesses like dementia. However, for many nursing home residents, this sedation is not caused by old age but by the side effects of their medications – medications they should have never been prescribed in the first place.

  Federal regulations define chemical restraints as any drug that is used for disciplinary purposes or the convenience of staff, rather than for treating medical symptoms.

  https://www.elderabuseadvocates.com/chemical-restraints-how-nursing-homes-use-drugs-to-control-residents/

Stuck in the middle

Stuck in the middle wrote:

  What can we use that is less restrictive than psych meds while still offering protection?

So, what does that huge body of law prescribe as the answer to my question?  

Crushed

Stuck in the middle wrote:

Stuck in the middle wrote:

  What can we use that is less restrictive than psych meds while still offering protection?

So, what does that huge body of law prescribe as the answer to my question?  

Most importantly that the decision on what is appropriate be made by outside professionals  without a conflict of interests.  I have represented patients in similar cases  . It's often treated as elder abuse.  You cant put a shock collar on him either.  Placement may be the answer

They are not Psych meds they are "chemical restraints"  When used this way  they have no medical purpose only behavioral control

Jimbob59

I am not a law school legal eagle but I am pretty sure if he is placed he will be given medication to keep him from playing grab a** with the facilities staff.

lqadams

Crushed,

I agree with abc123. Blow it thru your Wahzoo.  Reading so many of your other posts, you are an intellectual snob.

Extreme hypersexuallity is a medical condition.  Regardless of what is causing it, it should be treated. No caregiver wife or partner should have to tolerate being groped and humiliated in front if their family, friends or general public.

dayn2nite2

Sexual slavery is NOT in my job description.  No means no.

Crushed

Jimbob59 wrote:

I am not a law school legal eagle but I am pretty sure if he is placed he will be given medication to keep him from playing grab a** with the facilities staff.

it against federal law

My whole point in this discussion is that any decisions have to be made by qualified third parties who are in a position to protect the patient not merely teh annoyed caregiver.  Primum Non Nocere  is still the watchword. 

Crushed

dayn2nite2 wrote:

Sexual slavery is NOT in my job description.  No means no.

of course but you are not allowed to shoot him either

or chain him up

or use  a cattle prod. 

or castrate him

etc.   

The fact that it is a problem does not mean that just any solution is acceptable

Crushed

lqadams wrote:

Crushed,

I agree with abc123. Blow it thru your Wahzoo.  Reading so many of your other posts, you are an intellectual snob.

Extreme hypersexuallity is a medical condition.  Regardless of what is causing it, it should be treated. No caregiver wife or partner should have to tolerate being groped and humiliated in front if their family, friends or general public.

IN reply

Hypersexualty in demented people is not a medical condition  It is a social condition ISB
 Inappropriate sexual behavior

  Lastly, inappropriateness often stems from judgmental mind-sets and arbitrations of the observers (clinical staff, family, and other residents), rather than the sexual activities themselves
 Although there are few reports of non-pharmacological interventions and there is a lack of evidence for their efficacy, there is a general agreement that they should be the first-line treatment for ISB in elderly people with dementia [20], principally because of concerns about safety and ethics [38]. However, clinicians often manage problematic behavior with medication because of the ease of administration, perceived efficacy [39], and lack of trained staff members [It is important to rule out treatable causes of ISB such as pain, boredom, lack of stimulation, and lack of an outlet for affectional needs. Only then should medication be considered.

Curr Treat Options Neurol. 2016; 18: 41.

Published online 2016 Aug 11.Treatment of Inappropriate Sexual Behavior in Dementia

   I am a retired law professor   I also taught health care risk management I was a Professor in both Engineering and consumer economics.  I was an ethics advisor to very large federal research projects.  When I was a law student I interned in a psychiatric hospital and saw what they did to patients . I married a physician and and studied and taught professional ethics.  After this particle was published in 2016  the federal government stopped the practice of using drugs for chemical restraint

 

ButterflyWings

Palmetto Peg, I am sorry you are dealing with this. Glen Campbell's widow describes the same thing in their dementia journey. She consulted his Dr who did adjust his meds. I did not have the hands up the shirt, and down the pants behavior thankfully (the grocery store?!) but there was a 6-7 month period when DH propositioned me frequently. He made lots of remarks and I was able to ignore, change the subject, leave the room until it passed. If it had been worse, I would have sought another solution, yes.

I am not convinced that he had actual urges, and he may have been frustrated by not being able to do the deed even had I agreed to stay in bed all day which is ludicrous. I would not tolerate being shamed on these boards for seeking relief for him and me if needed, however. I think that is wrong and am sorry for that dynamic in this thread.

Crushed, you have helped so many on legal topics and other long-time caregiver tips, I am sorry your tone and input on this topic is so rigid, negative toward female partners' rights to their bodies, and just wrong. If, as a function of brain decline, a medical condition, hypersexuality emerges and some feel it should be treated medically then a family member experiencing the sexual abuse directly should not be put in the same category as the study and law you described for facilities. On a related note, the robust sexual relationship you described with your wife into early late stages could be deemed by some as inappropriate with a demented person. But it was your wife, your life, your personal decision and no judgment here. You should afford others that same courtesy.

Palmetto Peg and others, Seroquel helped my DH with other behaviors causing him and me distress. I do not think inappropriate sexual behavior is any less worthy of treatment, and he is not "drugged into oblivion". If the legal profession were not so heavily male, I believe some legal opinion, which becomes policy and law, would be different. If this behavior is done in front of minor children, to aides, a wife, other relatives or strangers, it can cause emotional damage, mental health issues for you, and even legal repercussions or violent reaction if he gropes (molests, inappropriately touches) the wrong person. There is more to this than the loudest voice on the thread is trying to reduce it to. You are right to reach out for supportive feedback here from people who have had the same experience, and I hope those with other opinions will just stop, now that they have had their say.

Good luck to you.

Palmetto Peg

I have to say, I am surprised at the turn this post took.  I do not believe for one minute that it is wrong to seek a solution for any unwanted behavior from a dementia patient.  If he was hitting me, would it be okay to medicate him to take away some of the anger, or better to send him to jail?  Assault is assault!  It does seem that women are expected to submit to a husband's request for sex, even though it is both unwanted and humiliating.  How would a man feel if his wife with dementia insisted on pulling down his shorts and touching him in the food store?  In no way do I want my husband turned into a zombie, but this hypersexual behavior looks very much like anxiety and I think he will benefit from a trip to the doctor.  I will talk to his doctor and accept an appropriate pharmaceutical solution - for both of us.

Just to clarify things a bit - Crusher - are you saying that in a memory care setting a patient cannot receive any medication to control their behavior?  If they are self-harming are they not able to receive anything to reduce that urge?  If they are unable to sleep, is nothing done?

Thank you all who supported a person's right to say no to unwanted sexual assault!

Ed1937

ButterflyWings, what you said is exactly what I would say if I found the words. Thank you! In my opinion, if drugs will help, DO IT. Not to consider drugs would only make things harder for you.

Ed1937

Crushed wrote:

   I am a retired law professor   I also taught health care risk management I was a Professor in both Engineering and consumer economics.  I was an ethics advisor to very large federal research projects.  When I was a law student I interned in a psychiatric hospital and saw what they did to patients . I married a physician and and studied and taught professional ethics.  After this particle was published in 2016  the federal government stopped the practice of using drugs for chemical restraint

It is said that arguing with a PWD is a losing battle. For those of you who would argue with Crushed, just read all the times "I" is used. Still think you might have a chance to win?

 

June45

Palmetto Peg, you have a lot of support here.  I hope you are able to see a doctor soon so that you can find some relief...for both of you!

Crushed

I don't hear anyone saying  use drugs instead of getting rid of guns or use drugs to stop people from driving etc. 

No repeat no repeat no drugs are approved for such behavioral control  

Sedation is a side effect of powerful anti psychotics .  They used to put people in a thorazine haze to make them controllable. Anti psychotics have serious side effects

NO its not assault Assault requires Mens Rea not mere competence (technically its battry if a person is competent )

Did anyone suggest drugs for Andrew Cuomo  that he had a disease  ?

Yes people lie to doctors and yes doctors act unethically at times. 

Yes you can use drugs to prevent self harm after all other alternatives have been tried

You don't just get the drugs and dope them up because the person is annoying you

abc123

Good morning Peg! 

You have plenty of support here. There are so many others who are having the same types of issues. I referred to my copy of The 36-Hour Day to see if I could offer up any kind of information.{ The book does mention inappropriate sexual behavior, becoming pre-occupied with sexual thoughts or becoming sexually demanding. It goes on to say the problem is difficult to treat when it occurs, medication is rarely helpful because most that are used only sedate the person. If the problem persists, you should think about placement outside of the home.The book also says that this behavior is most common to people with FTD.}

This is the first time I've been disappointed with this book. I guess its time they do some extended research on the subject. I know there are no magic words to help us but I did expect more from this particular book. 

Peg, you are in my heart and my prayers, DH is too. I hope today you are both blessed with peace. 

Sincerely,

abc123

Dear Ed, today I am grateful for you, again!

DrinaJGB

Not a medical condition? How utterly absurd. My husband had inappropriate sexuality/comments the first few months after his ACQUIRED BRAIN INJURY from a deadly viral attack--if that's not a medical condition kindly tell me what is. It eventually subsided after the synapses re-connected around damaged areas.

SO---Crushed-- your responses to this woman dealing with this condition in her DH and desperately seeking help is not only cruel, but totally and completely out of line. Were you born an arrogant jerk or has it slowly evolved over the years. Good grief have a little compassion.