Why is he so amorous now?

Jimbob59

Arguing with the Crusher is like arguing with a dementia patient they are always right even when they are so so wrong.

dayn2nite2

BW, I didn't know Glen Campbell's wife also had this problem.  I'm glad when this topic is brought up because it's another opportunity to know that we're never truly alone with any of these issues that come up in the dementia journey.  And this goes whether our partner is a man or a woman, there is a change in the relationship to that of parent and child and this affects how we feel about sex with that person.  Plus, WE ARE EXHAUSTED!

Crushed

DrinaJGB wrote:

Not a medical condition? How utterly absurd. My husband had inappropriate sexuality/comments the first few months after his ACQUIRED BRAIN INJURY from a deadly viral attack--if that's not a medical condition kindly tell me what is. It eventually subsided after the synapses re-connected around damaged areas.

SO---Crushed-- your responses to this woman dealing with this condition in her DH and desperately seeking help is not only cruel, but totally and completely out of line. Were you born an arrogant jerk or has it slowly evolved over the years. Good grief have a little compassion.

Its not a  medical condition  It is a behavioral problem If you have a concussion and it changes your behavior that does not make it a drugable medical condition.

 

Do you drug your  dog who barks?   Do you drug your daughter if you don't like her boyfriend? Should husbands drug wives who lose interest in sex?  Everyone  seems to forget that what is proposed is drugging a helpless person to make their behavior more socially acceptable . 

She is being advised to solve her problem by drugging someone else.  

Ive been patient advocate in many situations  I suggest some empathy for the patient in is order.    Caretakers have choices

 
 

June45

Crushed,

I plead with you to give it a rest. We caregivers who are currently in the trenches full time, 24/7, 365, are trying to survive each day and still give good care to our LO's.  You continue to recite hyperboles and law that have nothing to do with Peg's situation.   We need to support Peg and other woman who are dealing with this problem. And if you go after me to tell me how wrong I am, I will consider it a badge of honor.

DrinaJGB

Crushed--False ego is an identity crafted to preserve our sense of being the most significant, the most important, the one who knows everything. Pride of wealth destroys wealth, pride of strength destroys strength, and pride of knowledge destroys knowledge.It follows that the biggest obstacle to learning is being a know it all.The ego is an obstacle to growth.

Ed1937

Crushed wrote: 

Everyone  seems to forget that what is proposed is drugging a helpless person to make their behavior more socially acceptable . 

Nobody here is thinking about it being socially acceptable. They are thinking about the behavior being too much for the caretaker to handle. Caregivers need help too. Other caregivers should show a little empathy.

She is being advised to solve her problem by drugging someone else.  

She is being advised to ask the doctor, not a lawyer, if there is something that can be prescribed to help with the problem.

 

Crushed

June45 wrote:

Crushed,

I plead with you to give it a rest. We caregivers who are currently in the trenches full time, 24/7, 365, are trying to survive each day and still give good care to our LO's.  You continue to recite hyperboles and law that have nothing to do with Peg's situation.   We need to support Peg and other woman who are dealing with this problem. And if you go after me to tell me how wrong I am, I will consider it a badge of honor.

IMHO You are not reading what I say.  Of course caretakers are in the trenches and need support .  But not at the expense of a helpless person.   
 
I have a disabled granddaughter  I was a hands on in the trenches caretaker for 5 1/2 years for my wife and before that for my mother. 

Yes its a very difficult problem Yes sedation seems so easy so "medical" and so effective  
 I just refuse to join the "drug up the old pain in the a**" Chorus.  You can use every Euphemism or word game you like but what is advocated is sedating a helpless person so they are not annoying. 

Everyone who deals with obnoxious behavior would love to sedate the person. Teachers and prison guards and those who deal with mental illness are particularly enthusiastic. I was a psychiatric patient advocate as far back as 1974.  

Drugs are always the last resort, not the first  

ElaineD

Dear Alzconnected friends:

This topic is certainly of interest to many, if the number of posts is any indication.

I remember reading that as Alz/dementia progresses the person regresses further and further back in time/memory/behavior.

So I imagine the 'amorous' stage represent perhaps late teens or early 20's.  Or perhaps the early stage of a newly wed?

I know this is simplistic, but it may help with understanding.  

As to what Crushed has to say:  If anyone wants medications to decrease the inappropriate behavior of their LOWAD, they WILL HAVE TO CONSULT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL FOR THE PRESCRIPTION.  So that, by definition, takes care of the THIRD OPINION from a professional.

You cannot begin administering Seroquel on your own.

What I see in Crushed is an almost constant desire to 'fight a fight that isn't there' reflexively offering advice which isn't appropriate to the present discussion and that is highly legalistic and reflects his years of professional advocacy.

I see the same behavior in my DH in the early stage of dementia...when I try to discuss something with him, he gets on a soap box and begins barraging me with very vehement facts and figures that he wants to talk about, and not listening at ALL to the issue that I originally brought up.   I can not longer have in-depth discussion with him, alas.

I just say 'you're so right' and he is happy.

ElaineD

TommyT

Palmetto Peg wrote:

My DH has gone way over the top recently with his affection for me.  He is constantly grabbing me and trying to put his hand up my shirt or down my pants - even in the grocery store!  At home he tells me I am beautiful and he loves me and he wants to make love to me all day long.  He, of course, like most men his age has ED and our love life has changed significantly, but I find it very wearing to just be grabbed, kissed, and followed every where I go with declarations of love!  I know it might sound silly to some who are being treated meanly, but he is relentless!  I literally cannot cook a meal without him standing behind me hugging me and grabbing my breasts (sorry - TMI?) Is this just a stage in the disease?  Will I wish at some point we could go back to this?  Even in front of the children he is acting this way - much to their amusement and my embarrassment.  Is there a way to redirect his affection a little?

Sounds like FTD to me. See a Nurologist and they might suggest medication. I'm not a doctor. But I've been around this dementia crud since 2008

Crushed

https://nursingcentered.sigmanursing.org/commentary/more-commentary/Vol40-2-when-patients-behave-inappropriately

Palmetto Peg

I so appreciate all of the support I have received here.  I am not surprised that there are differences of opinion on such a highly charged subject.  I will consult the neurologist we are seeing in October, and of course I will try redirection and diversionary tactics - but so far they aren't working.  I will not put my husband in a facility for one problem - where I am sure he would not receive the care I give him.  I also will not be subjected to constant groping, grabbing and crude language about what he would like to do to me.  If he had epilepsy and his brain was having seizures, medication would be appropriate to give him a better quality of life.  I see this behavior as a malfunction in his brain, too, and if a low dose of a medication can calm that urge down so that he is less agitated (NOT DRUGGED INTO COMPLIANCE - this is not "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest!), then we can both be more settled around each other and work on giving him a peaceful existence.  Again, thank you all for such wonderful support!

Jo C.

When someone is over the top regarding a particular topic over and over again, especially each time a particular topic comes up, one can learn from that and if one wishes, choose not to read that person's input.  The topic of sex can tend to cause florid responses in opposition instead of  listening closely and of being supportively interactive without hyperbole and demands for only one single point of view..  It is the severity of topic induced reaction that can cause an individual to begin to enter the realm of ranting.  It is unfortunate, but in keeping peace; kindness in simply not reading or responding keeps waters from becoming roiled when they do not have to be..

With my step-dad who became VERY inappropriate with his behaviors; it was far, far over the moon in being very close to his being reported to law enforcement by staff who felt they were being sexually more or less assaulted.   And . . . . it appeared that he too was actually unsettled.  We tried everything to assist, nothing helped.  The care aides would have him trying to access their bodies and groping, and at times, he would be naked in the shower and start groping; he was never in an "excited" state, he seemed actually rather disconnected.  He would not remember that behavior at all within a short amount of time.

Because it became a very severe issue and heaven help us if he began to do this publicly or if an aide became overwhelmed; that could have well led to legal issues not to mention not being able to keep aide care so family could work.

There were other lesser issues too, but the frontal lobe of the brain was driving the train on the biggest problem that went on and on and on day after day after day despite valiant attempts to help stop it..

The Neurologist, after an exam and listening to history, felt it was a frontal lobe issue and it would be best to do a very small dose of Seroquel; it seemed to initially help; but break through happened within just a couple of weeks.  Neuro very slightly increased the medication over a 24 hour period and that was what eliminated the Frontal Lobe effect.   Step-dad was just fine.  He lived many more years with no downside to the medication.

Let me tell you our experience after all the haranguing about causing terrible outcomes from a medically necessary med:

BEFORE SEROQUEL:  Step-dad had always been alert and mostly oriented; he had always been a very kind and laid back sort of person.  He knew who he was ,  where he was, and who we were.  He was able to feed himself, shower with stand-by assistance, help dress himself, had favorite TV programs; his dementia was a slow moving one.  His one big lapse was memory; especially short term memory and lack of reasoning and judgment to conduct his own care and finances..

AFTER SEROQUEL:  We were blessed in that he was NOT sedated, he was NOT affected in his ability to  think; he did not become confused, or have any changes in his usual behaviors.  He was kind, he was alert, mostly oriented, laid back, he knew who he was, where he was, who we were; could still do all the things he was able to do prior to Seroquel and still enjoyed his TV programs, etc. The only thing that changed was the frontal lobe driver being taken out of the equation that was causing such behaioral upheavals for him, the care aides and family.  (Had he had a bad outcome we would have dealt with that on his behalf.)

Ed; you were right on in your observation.. All of us are here in support of one another and that almost always holds fast with exceptions seldom happening.

Big issue; appropriate to be brought to the dementia specialist's attention for assessment and appropriate plan of care as necessary.

Let us know how you are doing and how things are going; we really do care,

J.

Jeff86

Sad to read someone here characterize the behavior described as ‘annoying.’   And sad to read, on a caregiver support site, so little sympathy for the recipient of unwanted sexual approaches.  The governor of New York, with no known medical condition, had to step aside because of unwanted sexual approaches. 

But this was a pattern with Mr Cuomo.  By contrast, the behavior from Palmetto Peg’s DH is a deviation from his prior self.  We don’t treat AD because we don’t have medications that are effective.  But we sure do treat the various symptoms that the disease causes.  This is not normal sexual behavior; this is disease manifestation.  To characterize a desire to manage this unfortunate symptom as ‘chemical restraint’ is manipulative and abusive.  PWD’s may be ‘helpless’ but their symptoms still need to be treated, whether they’re violent, depressed, or behaving in a sexually predatory fashion.

HJ3

I'm brand new around here, and unsure how to get started. However, I wanted to thank you all who contributed to this thread. I was in despair about my husband's recent behavior changes. Half of the time he displays the hyper-affection Peg described and then he accuses me of infidelity with his (dead) best friend, then asks for sex in the sly, indirect way of the 13 year old boy. Hearing a number of people say that I have rights in our situation is so impowering. And it's also a great comfort to know that there is a pharmaceutical backup if I can't get a handle on the situation.

As for the discussion of ethics, I would absolutely agree with Crushed that, in principle we shouldn't medicate away an "inconvenience", but it's clear that the women in this situation definitely have a broader view of what is considered difficult or intolerable behavior. So we vary in the extent to which we are bothered. Also, none of us have ideal situations. In my case, I am the caretaker for my daughter, who is autistic and chronically ill, as well as for my husband, and have no friends, relatives, or neighbors to assist. (We're unlucky rather than horrible, really!) The only help society is likely to offer me is in pill form and I can't stand on an ethical high horse.

Once again, thanks!

loveskitties

Please folks, regardless of how you feel about another's response, don't get into personal attacks.

Say you disagree and state your case.

M1

HJ3, this is a very old thread from over two years ago. You will get more responses if you start a new discussion.

Denise1847

I have a suggestion. Invite Crushed to come take care of your husband and see how well that works out.

I sure hope this site doesn't start getting ugly like I am seeing with Crush's comments. I thought this was suppose to be a supportive site. Crushed, you really owe her an apology. Let's help each other please.

Jo C.

Hi Denise; you have been reading a VERY old Thread from two years ago; it is long, long over with as far as the communication from that long ago time.

As for being a safe place; yes it is, AND we have policies and Community Guidelines which we must follow to be Members, you can find those online here on this site at:

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/64410/alzconnected-community-guidelines

IF anyone is off base being rude or attacking or getting personal, or breaching other policies, please feel free to click on the prompt called, "Flag" at the bottom of each of our Posts and report the breach. it will be addressed by Admin. within a day.

This Thread was over long ago so we are good to go to drop it and move forward together in support of one another.

J.

LSUshad

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/105174#Comment_105174

Palmetto Peg, I appreciate your courage in bringing this to the forum. As far as I am concerned you have every right to protect yourself from abuse of any kind from anyone, including your spouse. Before we put my DW in memory care, I struggled with the issue of whether sexual interaction with her was appropriate, given her state of mind. As her AD progressed, I became uncomfortable with the idea and concluded that if I felt it was an ethical issue for me, then I should follow my intuition and refrain from sexual activity with her (or anyone). It seems to me that, given her cognitive deficits, in some way, we were no longer equal partners, even though my love for her was as strong, or stronger, than ever. It is a profoundly difficult issue. Thank you again for raising it.

mrl

Yikes, my first thought was absolutely seroquel as I continued to read down, I am blown away by the "active" post🤣 I'm still with seroquel!! 👍️