Taking mom's computer away & obsessed with her money
Comments
-
Welcome to the forum. I think you lose it completely and permanently, no matter what, use the pandemic as an excuse. Her being on the internet at all is a scary proposition, despite any security precautions you may try. Does your sister have power of attorney? If so, she should be able to tell the bank not to transfer funds without her permission. If not sounds like that is your first order of business.
My partner was a very successful and savvy businesswoman and is still obsessed with her finances, though she lost all ability to use a computer pretty early. Fortunately I have poa and am also a signatory on all her accounts. Recently the Ukrainian invasion has so upset her that she has made noises about wanting to liquidate all her investments and "put it all in gold." As she can still use the phone, I didn't want her doing any of that over the phone. I checked with our investment advisor, and he said he has all the accounts flagged to not make changes without checking with him or me. So they can definitely do that.
Push comes to shove, make up some excuse that there's no WiFi at her facility, or it's being repaired, parts aren't available, whatever you have to do. Sorry, I know it's difficult.
0 -
The computer needs to stay in the repair shop forever. Your mom should not have access to any of her funds. There are members here whose loved one with dementia blew through their life savings that were greatly needed. This is dangerous business here! Everything you described about your mother is very common behavior for a PWD. (Person with dementia) Please read as many threads on this forum as possible. There is so much for you to learn. Everyday is a new day, changes and difficulties. It's hard and depressing. You should call the bank ASAP about your mother not having access to her funds. It's for her well being. Have you and your sister talked with a CELA? They are a tremendous help! Also, there are medications that can possibly help calm her behavior and improve her quality of life. I wish you well. Good luck.0
-
In the end the repeating will be easier than the loss of the money she has left.
My LO had given away over $30k before I was able to stop her access to her money. I keep very clear track as I have family who constantly question so best to keep clear records should you need them including any funds that your LO had/has access to.
We are here for you ... this is a community who really gets what you are feeling.
Take care,
Cyndi
0 -
COVID - no computer chips, no computer parts, no new computers in the store - whatever reason you want to use, and the computer should never come back.
She should not still have access to her funds - at all. No transfers by her and no writing checks. She won't understand. It'll be hard.0 -
Yes the checks are another issue. In the year after a difficult neck surgery, my partner gave away about $25,000 to animal charities before I caught it and put a stop to it. Others here hav e lost much, much more. That phase is fortunately passed, but she should not have a checkbook in the MC facility. Maybe it needs to get lost too. You may need to transfer her funds to another account that she doesn't have access to. Again, you would need power of attorney to accomplish that.0
-
Hi and welcome.
A couple of thoughts, but first kudos to you and your sister for working so well together around the care of your mom. That is a rarity worthy of recognition.
1. Do you have a sense of the stage of dementia in which your mom is currently? My dad's obsession with money/assets started fairly early on and remained well into the start of stage 6. It was difficult and ugly and made life harder for us all.
2. Does anyone have a POA (that kicks in if incapacitated) or guardianship for your mom? With either, you and/or sister could shut down her ability to make things happen at the bank. You could even open a new account for her to protect assets.
3. Is this a regular hospitality-model AL or a higher acuity AL-for-Memory Care setting? If she's in a traditional AL with dementia it is probably not the ideal setting for her now. Other residents will avoid (or even bully) her because they know she's had a cognitive shift. Activities planned in such a place will not be geared to make a PWD feel successful, so they won't engage her. She might do better emotionally in a MCF where care is dementia-informed; activities would bet planned for those who have had a cognitive shift and orchestrated by staff who are trained and experienced around dementia. IME, a quality MCF will have programming and active engagement of residents pretty much all day keeping them in the common areas as much as possible rather than alone in their rooms.
4. The computer needs to go. Explain the delay on COVID. Explain the lack of computers for sale on COVID- "everyone's working from home, so there's a shortage". Rinse and repeat. Eventually out of sight will become out of mind.
5. It might make sense to disappear the phone, too. At the very least, perhaps you could try to erase the bank's phone numbers from her contact list as she may no longer recall the number or how to obtain it.
6. If she's fixated on bank statements, you could create fake documents to sooth her. I did this at a point when dad was in the middle stages.
This is a dangerous stage. My parents split the financial aspects of their household. Mom managed the monthly stuff; money coming in and bills for their cars, medical and houses. Dad "managed" investments. Badly. My mom blew me off about my concerns about dad having dementia resulting in a late diagnosis by which time he had lost $350K daytrading including monies earmarked for my late sister's 2 kids. There's no re-do on that; those funds are gone. To add insult-to-injury-- this loss stuck with him but he conflated it to a tale of me selling his houses for less than they were worth because I'm stupid and excoriating me for it on the regular. This in the midst of managing them taking over my life with the logistics of selling, renting, buying and moving properties in 3 different states. Fun times.
Fortunately, their real estate and a couple of big CDs he'd forgotten about were a buffer, but had he needed MC for years, my mom's options should she need care (she is younger but has so many health issues) would not have been great.
HB0 -
I have a similar situation that my mother is stage 4 and is 81. She lives in Independent living with my step father. They keep their money separate but my mother refuses to give up control of paying bills. My step father will not accept my mother having diagnosis. I am her DPOA as well as him. She is unable to access computer as she cannot remember how to do passwords but can access with cell phone. Facebook is also a big concern. They both feel I will steal my mothers money yet my step father states he cannot manage it either. I am tying to consider options and would hate to do guardianship without her approval but feel this is the only way to go and not sure with my step father also named if it is a possibility.0
-
Iowa- I am one of those members abc referred to, who can speak from tragic experience. Life savings and other assets...gone. So fast my head still spins when I can bear to reflect on it.
I barely learned the depth of my DH’s early impairment with finances in time to at least save the roof over our heads. And that is still in a precarious status, definitely if anything happens to me anytime soon. The behaviors you report and her preoccupation with the bank accounts is a huge red flag - the kind of signal that is a blessing in disguise, allowing you to take the proper protective actions, urgently. I agree that AL is not enough support and supervision for your dear mom, unfortunately.
Please heed the great advice the others have offered. This is a 3-alarm fire. Shut it down now, and no need to try to convince, rationalize, seek agreement or permission. The creative explanations and fiblets here are ideal, and kind. Her reasoner is broken and you daughters are now in charge. She is blessed to have you, and that you have each other working together. Priceless.
0 -
I’m in Iowa, if it matters, and the Bank was very helpful when I explained the situation - they put me on the account which pretty much solved everything. Maybe she will agree to that if you frame it tactfully? Say it’s while the computer is being fixed.0
-
A PWD has brain damage. Their brain no longer works properly even when they still seem very "with it". Trying to explain something or get permission is a waste of precious time in some situations. This is one of those situations.0
-
You have to do whatever you can to get the bank to stop following her orders. That’s hard to do without a POA. I have done what I can to protect my parent’s money - from my step-dad who has not been diagnosed. My Mom ( who is diagnosed) is happy that I take care of their bills). There are 3 bank accounts between them - there used to be two. Step-dad was coached by a ‘friend’ to transfer 99% of the money on their joint bill paying account into one in my step-dads name only. However, I have possession of all 3 checkbooks.
That new account is a constant source of friction because my step-dad can’t ( and never did) understand that 4-2 = 2. Not 4. He has the only debit card for it. I pay their bills and I try to put non automated ones in front of him, writing the check on ‘his’ account and having him sign it. I write it because he doesn’t understand( and never did) how to write a check. Although if I am not going to see him, I pay it out of the joint account ( which I am on). I usually have a copy of the bill with me. I have no access to his account. Yet he gets mad when he gets money out of the ATM and sees the balance - and accuses me( to Mom) of stealing money. This is what your Mom is or will be probably doing to you.
The automated bills come out of their original joint account - the automated deposits still occur. He complains about that account also. Thinks they should move out of AL and live independently, because it would be cheaper. As if that would work. The third account used to be a joint one, was used to store the proceeds from the sale of their house, and is now in Moms’ name - she transferred it and then added me to that new account. And then signed a POA in front of the banker( a notary). He never seems to ask about that account. It’s currently used to pay her health insurance premiums and the second person AL rent. Although that money could pass to me upon her death, I would transfer it to an account with his name included and then hand him the checkbook and say see you later. I totally recognize it as being their money, never to be mine. He’s made it too difficult to help him if she dies first.
I live in fear that he will get someone to help him transfer his pension and SS to that account in his name only and then there would not be enough in the joint account to pay any bills including the main AL rent. You don’t want your mom to lock you out of the money needed to pay her bills.
0 -
My sister does have POA. There is one person in particular at the bank that has handled mom's business in the past. When my sister scolded her for transferring money without first calling my sister, she replied "well after all it is your mom's money!" Yes, my sister quickly informed her that she has POA and is taking care of mom's finances due to her alzheimers.
This same lady also gave mom the phone number to the telephone company and mom then called them and cancelled her land line telephone! We were unable to get the phone reconnected with the same phone number, so now she just has her cell phone, which she has difficulty retrieving messages from.
Thanks so much for your advice. It really has me thinking deeper about this all and I know we need to make some changes ASAP.
Thanks so much!
IFW
0 -
HB
Mom is in AL but she can be transferred to a memory care unit when it's time. She tested high for the MC unit and it was heart wrenching to see those patients rocking baby dolls when we (my sister and I) toured. We knew mom was definitely not at that point and she wouldn't stay there. The staff agreed that she probably wasn't at that point so they tested her to see if she could go to AL. She passed that test but was on the lower end. The agreement is that as long as she can take care of herself, she can stay. But honestly I'm sure they are ready for her to go as she is constantly complaining about something, especially now since I took her computer away,
My husband just came home from visiting her and the staff said she is complaining she has nothing to do all day long. The home does have a lot of activities and she participates in almost all of them. As I mentioned earlier she has no hobbies that she can pacify herself. The night staff asked my husband tonight what they could do because she complained all day. The night worker had put RFD channel on to some country music and spent the last 1/2 hour visiting with mom. So she was glad to see my husband. When he got in mom's room the tv was off and mom was thankful to see him as she was board.
I would like to add that my sister created a monthly calendar where she and her kids and me and my kids rotate visiting her each week. Also between my sister and I we see her several times a week and we call her daily. So her being board is not due to lack of family coming to see her. She gets more visitors than anyone else in the facility.
0 -
I would like to say a HUGE THANK YOU to all of you who have taken the time to comment and wish us well with our situation. It means more than you will ever know and I feel so much better and confident that we are doing the right things, at least for now!
I feel so bad that your bad experiences and the losses you have all endured are helpful stepping stones and valuable references for me and my family.
God Bless you all!
Iowa Farm Wife
0 -
Dear Iowa Farm Wife-
I repeat, this is a 3-alarm fire. And the “helpful” bank teller should be reported to her supervisor and higher. Lots of “friendly, helpful” predators turn up when money and impairment are concerned. Scammers, colleagues, so-called friends, neighbors, caregiving help, and even bank staff (including a branch manager in our case.) The latter is no longer employed but that is little consolation when the funds are gone.
FYI, Some banks do not honor POA docs other than their own. But one way or another please do get a handle on this. I was able to update passwords and manage online banking plus set alerts and limits until able to completely exit my DH from the accounts, become his SSA Rep Payee etc.
I am irritated for you all, at this bank staffer’s interference. The individual’s behavior is rude and unprofessional at minimum. Sounds important to escalate: so the bank is officially put on notice (in writing) that due to your mother’s illness her designated POA is the ONLY decision maker and staff is asked not to support risky behavior that could constitute elder abuse, fraud, or criminal activity.
Thanks for your compassionate reply. But if we can help somebody by sharing what we’ve learned - good or bad - on the dementia journey, then that’s a win. Good luck to you all. It’s time to take the reins. Remember, as we say here, you are not doing it to her, you’re doing it for her.
0 -
I feel for what you are going through, it is a tough situation. After we moved my in-laws nearby in 2017, we realized quickly just how much of a mess their accounts and bills were, and like your mom, my FIL was on the computer obsessively checking things and had really made a mess of their finances. He would pay the same bills 4-5 time for example.
Fortunately, my MIL had copied all the accounts to her laptop and was paying the bills and keeping everything straight. When she was dx with cancer (passed a few months later) DH (with POA) and I took over paying for everything which was mostly just paying the bills online through their bank or using autopay. We changed the passwords so my FIL could not access the online accounts, and took away the checkbook and debit cards. We set up an account with a small amount of money for him so that when we went grocery shopping or on other errands, he could pay.
Every month we took a bank statement to show him what had been paid. I printed a list of all his bills and how they were being paid and pinned it to the wall next to his computer. He referred to that list a lot early on. Eventually, he lost interest, and was much less anxious because of it. Then a family member came to visit and we asked her to intercept his mail and take any bills out and keep them out of site. She thought that was terrible, he deserved to see his bills, and she gave all the bills to him. He freaked out, he was very anxious about it and talked about it nonstop for days. She got the picture then - that we were doing him a favor, taking that source of stress off him. But it took us a month before he relaxed again. Ugh.
Anyway… I saw your last post about being heartbroken seeing the residents and baby dolls. DH and I were just talking about this. It was just May of last year that we placed my FIL in MC and I remember thinking the same thing. He seemed way better functioning than that. They did have other activities at the level he was at, like trivia and bingo, which he really enjoyed. Here we are, not a year later, and he is at our house (on hospice) playing with legos, his fidget pillow, matchbox cars and a stuffed animal. Anything to keep his hands busy and mind occupied. It is so sad to see someone who once was an engineer reduced to this - I really hate this disease
0 -
Unfortunately PWD don't have hobbies. They leave everything behind them as they continue on their dementia journey. AL is not geared towards keeping PWD engaged in activities. That's why she's bored and causing problems.. MC staff are supposed to be well trained in keeping patients occupied, they are not allowed to stay behind, alone with themselves. I suggest speaking to her doctor about special meds, like a low dose of seroquel to start with. Many members here have LO's who use it and it has worked well. I wish you well. Please keep us posted. Your mom is blessed to have daughters like you & your sister!0
-
IFW-
Re: the bank.
Has the bank vetted a copy of the actual POA? IME, financial institutions typically want to make a copy of the document which is sent to their in-house legal department which will determine if the document specifically allows the agent to act in whatever capacity they plan. This can take a week or two especially if the document is obviously boilerplate internet download. If this has been done, your sister needs to sit down with the branch manager and make sure this nonsense doesn't happen again.
I can appreciate that it is hard planning care for someone who kind of straddles the AL and MC worlds with a foot in each place. This is especially true when a MCF allows residents to "age in place" which is a euphemism for "ride out this hideous disease and die here" as the community population can be very fluid in terms of function. We were fortunate that when we chose dad's MCF there were a number of residents who seemed about where he was and I think that made it easier for my mom to accept this as a good option for him.
HB0 -
I agree with reporting the “helpful” teller at the bank.0
-
Farm Wife - is the POA backed up with letters of incompetency from your moms’ doctors? If not, the bank is legally within their rights and responsibilities to honor your mom’s wishes. The POA allows your sister to act on your mom’s behalf- but your mom is still allowed to act on her own behalf too. As long as there isn’t any letters to the contrary.
As I mentioned in my earlier comment, my dad was able to transfer the money from a joint account to a single owner account. The bank refused to discuss it with us even though our names were also on that account. Even though they had been privy to my moms illness and that we were supposed to be moving them back to our home state that same day. I had just picked up a cashiers check for the movers the day before. When my mom recovered, she did the exact same thing with the account up here, the banker saw no problem at all. It was the only way to ensure she’d have access to money for her needs. I had the banker and her speak directly to each other and leave me out of it.
FYI- after my moms’ recovery, the doctors here refused to say she had any cognitive issues. They attributed it to the urosepsis. But I still wanted the banker here to feel she was ethically able to allow mom to transfer that money. I wanted the banker to understand it was moms’ idea and I was the chauffeur. Only afterward did we get the POA notarized. I went over every page of it verbally with mom and the banker, so the banker could see it was moms’ wishes. 2.5 years later, the only one of the two officially diagnosed is her and she’s only officially diagnosed with MCI. As of last fall, the neurologist said she’s competent to handle a lot more of her affairs than she actually handles. We can only partially protect our parents from themselves until they are declared incompetent.
Your sister might be able to open an account at a different bank - her name for the benefit of your mom ( POA),and write a check from one bank to the other. That works her it out if your moms hands. But it will cause a battle royals with your mom.
As to your mom’s unhappiness at the AL- my parents long time PCP saw me suffering over their onslaught of complaints during one of their appointments. We talked in the hallway afterwards. He told me that they would not be happy anywhere, but they were safe in the AL and that was what mattered. I can’t make them do the activities. I can’t make them form friendships with the other residents. I can’t help that they have outlived most of their siblings and friends and don’t stay in contact with the other siblings and friends. Nor can I help that they’ve alienated most other relatives.
0 -
Farm wife I am going to agree with the all the others advice. No more computer, maybe block the bank on the phone, it will take time, and there will be relapses. Any commercials with Bank stuff, any time you may be out and see a bank sign anyone talking about bills. But it gets easier. I have told my dw that everything has gone cellular, I get texts when every bil is payed. Which is true and I blame it all on the big fall guy,PANDEMIC. Pan is his nickname and it's all his fault, no more in store shopping, funny she never puts two and two together, we eat in restaurants. This is gonna be my fiblit till I no longer need one. The term poa is used alot on here, I have a Dpoa. Which was effective as soon as dw signed it. She was more cognitive them and I don't think it would be easy now. I have her sister as a backup in case something happens to me. It is financial, medical, end of life decisions. The bank didn't recognize it right away, they wanted there legal team to go over it. I know this is hard and hope you and your sister have an easy go with this sounds like you both agree, as for the person at the bank,it sounds like they don't have a clue. I will keep you in my prayers.0
-
The user and all related content has been deleted.0
-
So -
freeze your mother's credit rating with Experian, Equifax and Transunion. This will stop identity theft and stop her or anyone else from taking out a loan, mortgage, credit card, etc in her name.
Get your Durable Power of Attorney on all accounts and take control of them. Unless it is a Transitional POA you should not need documentation of the need for proxy.
All it takes is one click and it could all be gone . Then you have nothing to pay for care.
Fixations of the disease are difficult. If it wasn't on finances, it would be on something else.
Keep her access to her financials away from her.
0 -
How do you stop them from using the computer and doing some online shopping? Everyone is saying "let her have her normal things"....right now she is online shopping, opening new credit accounts and ordering the same things over and over multiple times....within a day of each other.
My family says she is still ok to handle her money and shop - I say she is not. So is it me against them? I'm in the process of getting power of attorney. Quite frankly, this cannot come soon enough. Any idea of how to handle that?
TIA.
0 -
Judie, start your own thread to get replies.
Freeze her credit, easy to do online, then no credit cards can be opened or loans taken.
0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.0
-
Does she use the computer for anything other than banking? Like reading news, emailing, etc? If so (sorry!), I think maybe it would be good for her cognition to keep it. But only if you can block the bank’s website.
If you have PoA, you can also change her banking password, so she can’t log on. But I think blocking the website would be better. And yes, the bank staff have to honor the PoA status, and not undermine it!When my LO was first diagnosed, we got her a TrueLink Visa, which can only be used in person. She could use it on outings (we set a daily limit of $100), but could not make online purchases with it. When she answered scam phone calls (every day until we changed her number!), she could give them that Visa number and it was useless to them. It’s expensive (monthly fee of $10-15), but allowed her some independence.
0 -
I have just got Truelink debut for my mom, too, so far so good. If I can get her into AL, she will have a slush fund for outings if she wants. She seemed fine with me taking her other cards and giving her what I said was a new, special, safer one.
She has paid the tax preparer, groceries and for a meal out so far with no issues. It did ask for a pin in the grocery store which I haven’t set up, as she won’t remember it, or if remembered, will proceed to enter incorrectly in my experience, but it was possible to continue the transaction successfully with no PIN. I don’t know if she can do it without me there though, she tends to freeze when asked “yes” or “no” or “continue” on the paying devices in stores. Guess we need to test-buy more things!
But she has vascular and is still able to learn some things with a lot of repetition and patience.
0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.0
-
My aunt is just the same - obsessed with her money and controlling it and really believes she knows what is going on even though she can no longer add or subtract. But she hasn't forgotten how to dial the phone!
We told my aunt that someone was trying to scam her money and to protect her, we moved it all to an account that was "frozen" and no one could take anything out of it. In addition, we told her that we would pay her bills out of our own money to make sure everything was taken care of. It was quite a lie - but it worked because she was so happy that she could keep her money and that we were protecting it. While everything is in her name, I am now the signatory and there are new account numbers, so even if she writes a check, nothing will happen to her money (although she can no longer write a check...) For reference, I am conservator so I have legal authority to do this.
0
Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
Read more
Categories
- All Categories
- 470 Living With Alzheimer's or Dementia
- 237 I Am Living With Alzheimer's or Other Dementia
- 233 I Am Living With Younger Onset Alzheimer's
- 14.1K Supporting Someone Living with Dementia
- 5.2K I Am a Caregiver (General Topics)
- 6.8K Caring For a Spouse or Partner
- 1.8K Caring for a Parent
- 156 Caring Long Distance
- 104 Supporting Those Who Have Lost Someone
- 11 Discusiones en Español
- 2 Vivir con Alzheimer u Otra Demencia
- 1 Vivo con Alzheimer u Otra Demencia
- 1 Vivo con Alzheimer de Inicio Más Joven
- 9 Prestación de Cuidado
- 2 Soy Cuidador (Temas Generales)
- 6 Cuidar de un Padre
- 22 ALZConnected Resources
- View Discussions For People Living with Dementia
- View Discussions for Caregivers
- Discusiones en Español
- Browse All Discussions
- Dementia Resources
- 6 Account Assistance
- 16 Help