What good is a dpoa
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I'm sorry. All I can say is keep calling every time you have the "opportunity". Someone will finally take her I hope...but then the next step is getting the hospital to "keep" her which in my experience is equally as difficult and then you end up with a really mad person. I've had mine refuse to put on their seat belt to drive home, and me tell the police I can't drive without the belt on ...and them tell me "oh, just drive slow" when I expressed my concern for them jumping out of a moving vehicle. My heart is with you.
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Yep she tried again to leave this time no keys, I got the truck key when the first officer was here. So she starts walking I call the cops again she walked up into the woods came back out and went down the road and knocked on the neighbors door and they don't know about her and neither did their dog, lucky the police arrive in the knick of time. Again they can't force her and I was told not to go near her for the night. I wasn't home ten minutes and she's madder than a firecracker she came to me asking why am I doing this. Here is where I need help I haven't learned how to redirect her away from this. But I am hoping she will go to sleep.0
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Toolbelt I am so sorry! Do you happen to have some liquid melatonin that you could put in a drink for her? I say that because I don’t know if she would take a pill from you at this point.
Sadly the police and the emt are right. She could file charges because she did answer their questions correctly.
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I don’t get it. She’s clearly a danger to herself since she’s wandered off twice.
I think your wife needs a UTI test. If it wasn’t for the officers telling you to avoid her. I would tell you to put her in the car and take her to the ER yourself. Their solution is ridiculous by the way. You obviously can’t let her out if your sight. Did you call your neighbor, the doctor again?
It’s a shame when you are left to deal with this on your own.
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Joydean I never thought about that. I never bought any. She keeps coming to my room asking why am I doing this and like a dummy, why do I try to reason. I feel so bad cause she truly believes I am trying to steal her money and the house. I did video her at my door in case this gets blown up. I'll end up in jail.
QBC that's where I was when this started I was gonna get her to go to the er. It was when I was planning this that she drove the truck away. I was hoping she would have gotten stopped on the road. She said she only went to the church and talked to someone's daughter?
Showtime she can really put on an act, till their gone.
It's gonna be a long night. I am gonna put my phone on charge In case things get out of hand again.
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Toolbelt, if your wife is still not asleep and is having problems you can try and take her to the er. I know the police said to stay away but they didn’t say how long, and if you feel she is in danger you have every right to do what you feel is best. I hope and pray she is resting. You have to do what you feel is best and safe for both of you!0
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TB, not everyone wants to go this route, but some spouses in my support groups in similar situations got best results/cooperation from police if they convinced the cops they were afraid, the PWD intended to hurt themself or others. Even though she may be able to answer some basic questions like you mentioned, harming self or others is another level.
But if all you say is that she wandered off, a lot of cops will just shrug that off as a little spat. Bottom line, some cops are better with this than others, and much depends on the “the luck of the draw” and what kind of a case you can make.
It often required some “stretching” or exxageration (or past record) and was used when a person needed to get to a hospital or facility for psych exam/treatment. That may mean 48 hours stay in some places.
And yes, you can always take her to ER yourself, although that would be my absolute last choice.
Regardless, Monday you should call your local cops and get her listed on a registry of people with dementias. Most local cops/sheriffs have one. Putting her on that list can help the next time you have to call. They’ll know this is a regular thing, not just “somebody got mad and ran away.” Plus, if she does get away, and they know it’s her with dementia in the car, it could literally save lives if she were to freak out and not,cooperate with cops. They’d know it’s dementia, not just a troublemaker.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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Here is a quick rundown of Tennessee law on conservatorship
https://www.tndecisionmaking.org/conservatorship-lev4/
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TB, Does your town, county or state have a Silver Alert program where you can register your LO as a person with dementia and a possible flight risk? If they do, perhaps the police would be more responsive if she was previously registered in the system.
Hot link for Crush’s post.
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Well I made it thru the night. And I feel terrible, now I have to put on my happy face and hope when she gets up things are a little better. I managed to get a little sleep once it was lights out upstairs. I found all the old keys that would fit a Chevrolet and locked them up. The key she had was a Chevrolet but it shouldn't have started it. I found that my subaru key would start the truck if you wiggle it. But surprise the truck is dead she didn't turn the key all the way back and the battery is dead now. For now it won't be fixed.
Rm it's funny you should say that I had gotten the contact number for the director of 911 I just didn't call him yet. She will be on the list Monday.
Joe c I like your thinking, great minds think alike I had picked up the altzhiemers association silver alert kit on Friday I just hadn't looked at it yet. The first officer that came was filling it out when she drove back in the driveway. Boy did that make me feel stupid.
Crushed thanks for the link and explaining what would happen if I went that route. Not gonna go that way. We for sure couldn't afford that. I'll read that when I get a minute so I better understand.
Boy can she she showtime when she wants to. I tried to talk to the neighbors at the end of the road but they wouldn't answer their door. No telling what they think of me?
Thanks for all the good advice everyone. Like I said I feel like crap, I know I am trying to do this for her, but it doesn't feel good. I feel like I am doing it to her, she keeps asking why are you doing this to me,I know it's the disease, I found it so hard to deal with when she's saying that to me looking just as normal as anything. I guess it's because if she was doing this to me, that's how I would respond. Am I crazy?
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toolbeltexpert wrote:
she keeps asking why are you doing this to me,I know it's the disease, I found it so hard to deal with when she's saying that to me looking just as normal as anything.
Stewart, my wife asked many times why am I so mean to her. It hurts because we don't want them to feel that way, even though we know it's the disease.
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Hey TBE you are a normal person in an abnormal environment. The person you thought you knew is in full psychological meltdown status. I would call her doctor and get her medicated ASAP. Once she is stabilized you can then plan your next move. If you can manage her she stays home or she she stays home with help or you drop her off at a facility. Those are your only 3 options. First thing on your list should be stabilize her so you can manage her. I am sure all my neighbors have identified my wife as the crazy lady that yells. So what. This sucks no doubt about it. All you can do is: Stop, Breathe, Plan, Execute, Evaluate. Then repeat. Do what ever you can to keep yourself together mentally. No point to both of you melting down. Good luck and keep on keeping on. This will pass.0
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Some communities have emergency response officers and social workers who are specially trained in responding to people with mental illness. We need to remember to ask for that team when we call 911 so the response isn’t just armed officers expecting to deal with a criminal. I haven’t needed to call for emergency assistance with my DH so far, and dread the day I do. Best wishes for you.0
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TBE- I’ve been thinking about you overnight. I still don’t understand why answering two questions was enough to imply she was with it enough to make decisions that countermanded yours.
However, then I thought back to when my mom had her UTI, while my parents still lived out of state and when this disaster actually started. We couldn’t get the doctors to agree she had a UTI and we couldn’t really get any help from them. The ER kept sending her home. My sister had to beg the doctors for a home health order. The doctors would just shrug their shoulders and mention delirium and then dementia. She was having delusions and paranoia, and basically resembled a stage six. The visiting nurses that came over a three week period said she needed to be placed in an actual nursing home.,. But no one would tell us how to go about it or help with it. Finally her existing pain doctor got her in to see a neurologist who gave us medication to get her to our home state.
We had a crisis on the way home - she opened the truck door at speed on the highway ( we got stopped before she tried to get out). Took her straight to the ER as a danger to herself and I told everyone that I could not take care of her at home. A week stay in the hospital for the UTI that they diagnosed in an hour. Then rehab and then AL. I don’t know what would have happened if she or my dad refused to go to the AL
I’m really frustrated by the laws that keep putting dementia/mentally ill patients back on the streets or in the hands of family members that cannot take care of them. The pendulum has swung way too far to the side of the patient’s personal freedom at the cost of proper care for them and the needs/ sanity of family members
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Absolutely spot on and well-said. Dementia caregivers need to become a lot more proactive and militant about pushing back on these bad social policies that put PWD and their entire families at serious risk. Much of this chaos is simply inhumane.0
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TBE; I am deeply sorry for the situation and all that is happening. It is true as another Member has noted, you are in a very abnormal situation trying to manage it in a "normal" manner. Sadly, as you have experienced, despite your best efforts, that has not been helpful. You have spent your life as a Pastor and have been a kind man being kind to others. Nothing prepared you for this. Your wife's blaming of you both stuns and hurts; it is the broken brain talking; it has nothing to do with you in reality. This must be managed clinically and may need some fiblets to get her to adequate care. I will be throwing out thoughts, so here I go.
NOTE: The severity of change in your wife's condition began abruptly after your neighbor MD, a personal friend, prescribed her Depakote. That drug is fraught with all sorts of possible highly negative effects. NOTE: It is also very important that Depakote not be stopped abruptly or a host of myriad negative effects can occur. The neighbor MD told you to stop the Trazadone which you just did a couple days ago - did he have you taper off the drug OR did he have you stop it abruptly? Usually tapering is 20 - 25% per week. If abrupt stoppage of the drug, this may be the cause or contributor of the dynamics you are now seeing especially since a new drug, Seroquel was started right away; I think it was Seroquel. Your wife's complex needs must get to adequate professional dementia care asap and this is not it.
She needs to be seen by and assessed by a dementia specialist. NOTE: One of the most important things a specialist can do is to accurately diagnose the type of demenia that is actually present. Big difference in how different types are treated. In some diagnoses, meds being used in one type of dementia are contraindicated in another and can make things even worse. Initial misdiagnosis is not uncommon. In your wife's situation as described, I would want to have a behavioral variant of FTD ruled out as well as ruling out a mixed dementia such as Vascular Dementia with FTD or other dementia. One must have an accurate diagnosis; it is key to treatment.
In this situation, it may be that getting her to an ER would be an approach one can use, indicating the severity of the uncontrollable issues and the need to have her admitted to a GeroPsych Unit at the closest med center that has such a unit would be a goal; NOT admitting her to a medical unit for her dementia.. Being that I think you are in a rural sort of area, a GeroPsych Unit may be a bit far away, but sometimes necessity makes it necessary to go the distance. To get her to an ER, you can make her think you are not well and you need to see the doctor and drive the both of you . . . it may be that if she has such a prescription, she may need to have an Ativan or Xanax to calm her for the drive even if she thinks the ER visit is for you.
Good that you are going to remove locks from doors and good that you are going to have your address and wife's name placed in the police computer in whatever program they have so that if a call is made, they will have the information. In order for an officer to take a person "into custody" so to speak by forcing them against their will into an ambulance for transport to an ER, must be done with the evidence at hand that the person is either a danger to themselves or to others. Your wife is really able to stage herself to avoid that.
Since your wife gets out of control, please TBE, remove the knives and scissors from the kitchen so they are not readily available. Also, no hammers, wrenches, golf clubs, etc. should be where she can access them readily. I realize this sounds alien and over the top, but things happen so unexpectedly and it is absolutely good practice to take precautions. If you sleep in separate bedrooms, can you block your door when you are sleeping?
In all of this dear TBE, is the fact that your wife has not been having her dementia managed by a dementia specialist. She has been being managed by your neighbor who has been a friend; he is a primary care MD and his wife was diagnosed with dementia; initially that was felt sufficient, but her circumstances as are all of our LOs of a different nature and they are over the top; this needs special care. It is a medical matter and is an urgent situation calling for urgent measures.
I feel some concern lest the Depakote stoppage may be an issue AND did the neighbor MD also started her on Seroquel pretty much right away with the Depakote still being in her system - and on top of that, your wife's condition went out of control.
There is help to be had, but it will entail going out of your comfort zone and getting to adequate care. This is not going to go away on its own; you are both suffering and both deserve to have relief which is available. If you do get to an ER and get her to a GeroPsych Unit, please be detailed re the Depakote stoppage and the immediate start of the new med with both in her system.
Let us know how you are, we are concerned on your behalf and we care very much. We will be coming and looking to see how you are doing; we are with you in spirit.
J.
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One helpful approach is validation>redirect.
Here is an informative article to read;
https://www.seniorliving.org/health/validation-therapy/
In answer to your origional question the DPOA is a really good thing even if it does not solve everything.
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Update I had made up my mind this morning we were not gonna go to church. Dw had played havoc when I was in my room last night. Took her hearing aides and case and plugged them in behind the vacuum. I never thought we would find them. When she started to stir I went upstairs and her door was locked so I knocked and the first thing she asked was are you trying to scam me? I didn't stay long up there so as not to continue her delusion. We did the devotion with great difficulty. That's when the missing hearing aides became apparent. After I found them, she went upstairs and came down dressed for church, I am glad she did we went out after and ate at the park. A really good time. Now I am home and she's back in high gear, get your stuff and get out. I am trying to live in the moment at the park but my reality is here and now in living color. I tried to distract her yesterday with the wizard of oz. But it's lost its power,ice cream nope, my bag of tricks is getting low. Hay rocky watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat, roar, wrong hat, now the lion won't go back in. Oh well I will get thru it one way or another. Our preacher was an emt ambulance driver before he became a preacher so I hit him up when he got there. Is this true about them not having to take her. Yes that's right many times he said he wished he could but that's the law. When he saw me he asked how's it going, so I told the truth like s#!$. He may never ask me again but his sermon a few months ago keeps coming back about how we say fine,I am doing the best I can, well I am stealing Matthew West song title again truth be told. I prayed this morning for you all, but I know longer know what to ask for dw. Thank you all for listening to me complain and rant. I am so grateful for your listening ears.0
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In all of this terrible state until you are able to get your wife to care, we have left something out. How are you doing physically? This is a dreadful amount of stress on a 24 hour basis, worry about heart, blood pressure, GI tract, etc. Please do not forget about yourself in all of this; you need to stay in good stead.
By the way, can you remove her door lock to eliminate potential danger? If the door can be unlocked from the outside, hope you have several keys that you have easy access to should something go awry.
Best of thoughts being sent your way, take good care of you,
J.
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"Thank you all for listening to me complain and rant. I am so grateful for your listening ears."
and this is the all important valadation.....
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Update we are at the hospital and she may go to a geripsych tonight.
Jo C her door has a hole for a paper clip I have done it many times.
She was just saying she was hungry and a hot plate just appeared. She is starting to ask alot how long is this gonna be. We will be getting to the hard part. That will be a release I have been holding a long while
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TBE- what a roller coaster weekend for you and her. As you know, ER waits are very hard for dementia patients. I hope they can find her a bed tonight even if she doesn’t get to the right unit tonight.
How did you manage to get her to the ER?
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toolbeltexpert wrote:I believe caregivers spend too much time talking and explaining to PWDs; they cannot follow you, even if they are nodding and saying "yes" or "uh-huh". PWDs are only getting confused and then agitated. How do I know this? Because it happens with me. Use simple declarative sentences, not so many questions or involved statements. I believe it will help.Thank you all for listening to me complain and rant. I am so grateful for your listening ears.
You are being reactive, instead of being proactive. For example, after church and eating at the park, your DW "went into high gear." This is prime sundowning time, in the afternoon and after cognitive and physical exertion. It appears to me that you are still expecting your wife to be normal, but a little bit off. I believe it would help you both to accept that she has the disease of Alzheimer's with its various characteristics. Everything you mention is not unexpected for a PWD, including locking herself inside. A long time ago, Crushed posted about how to unlock bathroom doors from the outside.
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Qbc it was easy I let her go, she tried the car and truck no go. She went to the garage which is 180ft from the house and started beating the door cameras are wonderful. Then she went down the road to the neighbors at the end of our road and they had a heads up this time,they invited her in and told them there were 2 men at her house 1 was her husband and she didn't know the other guy, but she was crying and wanted them to call the cops. Bingo I showed up and went in, it went OK then she went out to start the 4 wheeler but couldn't figure it out, I took her to another neighbor who had called asking about Judy. So itook her to them and waited for the police, it was that neighbor who convinced her to go with the ems. She seems OK but she is beginning to get more anxious wanting her clothes. My church family and you all have kept us covered in prayer. Thank you all0
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TBE - thinking about you and your DW. Hang in there. Hopefully you can grab a snack or juice or something for you too, if it is a late night. Our last ER visit was 14 hours, we ended up back at home - DH set one foot out of the car and took a hard fall on the cold concrete and we had our first firefighters' lift assist. The next day started our hospice experience and so much trial and error that could have been avoided with the appropriate geripsych attention/referral rather than going home in the first place. So, stay the course. You are in the right place for now, to get her to a geri-psych and/or the dementia specialist she needs so meds can be adjusted for her relief and safety.
Please repeat to anyone who asks, that you fear for her safety as she has been self-harming. Also that you are concerned that she is a danger to herself and others given her illness is causing delusional behavior and wandering, driving with dementia, etc. Emphasize that you cannot keep her safe at home. If anyone suggests sending her home, you keep insisting they must not release her to home, since the police have even told you to keep a distance from this very confused and sometimes irate loved one, yet she needs urgent help as neighbors and others can now verify. Hopefully the ER team will stay the course, even with a shift change, but just in case someone waffles you be consistent. Just keep stating she must be transferred to get the appropriate dementia-specific geri-psychiatric medical care asap, or you both are at risk.
We are sending you positive energy and prayers for your strength and excellence on the part of the med team.
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Dearest TBE, what an overwhelming, exhausting and stressful day. I am thinking of you and holding the two of you in my heart; you will be in my prayers tonight.
So hoping for the best for the two of you, you have done the very best anyone could possibly do under the circumstances with the over the moon challenges at hand.
Thank you so very much for keeping us posted, we have been very concerned on your behalf; it is kind of you to keep in touch in the midst of such troubles. We may not be able to be with you at the ER, but we are with you in spirit at your shoulder.
One of your many Forum friends,
J.
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Please, please take BW's advice on the mantra you may have to repeat multiple times...
"...you fear for her safety as she has been self-harming. Also that you are concerned that she is a danger to herself and others given her illness is causing delusional behavior and wandering, driving with dementia, etc. Emphasize that you cannot keep her safe at home..."
If anyone keeps pushing to release her home, try a firm "NO," Don't allow anyone to run over the top of you because it's against your nature to get nasty. Someone needs to listen to you for both your sake.
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I hope you're not still in the ER. Just the fact that you went there at all is exhausting. I'm praying they can get things straightened out for her soon.0
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Steward, lifting you both up and the medical team in prayers! May God’s will be done, the best help for you both!0
Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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