What is the competency threshold for guardianship and conservatorship?

Wilted

The kids are concerned their dad will contest guardianship and conservatorship, since the doctor's report says he's alert and aware. But the report also shows he scored a 7 out of 30 on the MMSE.

dayn2nite2

They need to ask the attorney they retain that question.  By now, they should already have retained an attorney and filed-if they’re serious about it.  

I think you’re going to need to give them a deadline by which time your caregiving services will no longer be available.  They could dither around with these questions for another year.  You have other things on your plate that need attention and they need to start taking care of their father.

Wilted

The attorney said she will require a $3,000 retainer and it will probably cost much more since their dad will likely contest the process and she will have to prepare a case.

The kids are asking for a letter from the doctor stating their father needs in-home care and guardianship. 

Joydean

Wilted, did you read what day told you? Have you decided when you are going to start taking care of yourself? Just asking.

Crushed

Gurardianship differs state by state

I cannot help anyone who will not put their state in their  profile 

   

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harshedbuzz

Wilted wrote:

The attorney said she will require a $3,000 retainer and it will probably cost much more since their dad will likely contest the process and she will have to prepare a case.

The kids are asking for a letter from the doctor stating their father needs in-home care and guardianship. 

You need to put on your own oxygen mask first. You are being exploited by these people and need to take steps to protect your own health.

They need to pay the $3000 retainer and get on with it. When they prevail, they will be reimbursed using dad's funds. 

Does dad still have the executive function to realize he'd need his own lawyer, find one, arrange and get to an appointment? I know of one case where sons pursued guardianship of their dad. Dad lived in a carriage house on the older son's property and was very engaged with his family there having dinner at the big house, vacationing with them and tagging along with the kids to their sports events and performances so the brothers were very aware the time had come to take the helm. Dad had fought doing his POA, so they were forced into guardianship.

Dad had enough cognitive reserve (retired PhD scientist) to actually obtain his own lawyer and fight them. The judge ordered testing, which dad had refused previously, and based on the results gave the sons guardianship. It was interesting that while this was playing out, dad never missed a meal or soccer game and never moved out.

HB

Quilting brings calm

Wilted… I don’t want to pay to go to court for guardianship of my step-father either.  Nor will he give me financial POA. Mom already gave me financial POA for her, 

However there’s a difference between your partner’s children and me. My step-father is in assisted living with my mom.  I am handling all  their bills, their medical appointments, her 5:30am phone calls.  When covid restrictions were in place, I did their shopping, etc. Your partner’s children aren’t doing any of that.  

Get yourself a lawyer.  Give them ( and him) an ultimatum of time for them to remove him from your property and your care.  With the score you mention, he has severe dementia and needs 24/7 care.   There is no way he can really contest a guardianship and win. Even if he could, the kids need to be the ones dealing with the aftermath.  You’ve already told them you are at your breaking point  and they have not done what is  needed.  They won’t unless their dad has no where to go because they don’t want to,  or maybe they are just overwhelmed - but they need to start stepping up. 

They could move  him now into an MC.  With that score, he couldn’t really do much about it.   They haven’t because they don’t want to.  An MC costs money.   Yes, their dad might not be happy there.  He won’t be happy anywhere.  

You have an out on the horizon, but you are going to have to force the move.  My sister and I had to talk my step-dad into moving  them back to my home state when an undiagnosed UTI turned my mom into a person that seemed to need a nursing home.  We didn’t really give him a choice since we both lived several hours away and we were not moving there.  The reason they moved into an assisted living facility here at that point is because they then had no home when they got to my home state, and no physical or mental ability to look for one.  So I handled it, explaining that the facility met their stated criteria for a place to live   Step-father still says they could live on their own, but makes no effort to make that happen almost 3 years later. 

Wilted

State is AZ. 

I updated my profile. 

Wilted

The Dr. said if I need to, I can take him to the ER and they can handle things from there. I hate to do that but I might have to.

dayn2nite2

Wilted wrote:

The Dr. said if I need to, I can take him to the ER and they can handle things from there. I hate to do that but I might have to.

The doctor is wrong.  What will happen is that they will want to discharge him and call you repeatedly to pick him up and make you feel guilty for not doing so.

The children will do nothing because you’re doing the heavy lifting.

Don’t let this happen.  Give the children 90 days to get their guardianship done and in the meantime you are going to look into evicting him. 

Rescue mom

I’ve watched too many others go down this road. From what you relate, they will do nothing to almost nothing—nothing meaningful, no real changes—as long as you are there doing it for them, for free. Or, in other words, re-read what Day2 and Victoria said.

Wilted

I'm no longer able to take care of him safely by myself.

dayn2nite2

The only person who can stop this is you.

Be very clear with them that they need to come and get him NOW.  They can address guardianship from their own home when they take him.

Tell them you are at the end of the road, there is no more time.  You are done.  Will they be angry?  Will he?  Yes, probably.  But this is going to be the only way you get out from under this.

You can file to have him evicted and let his children know OR you can simply call them and tell them they need to come get him on XX date and you will have him packed and ready.  

They are using you for the free caregiving and that allows them to continue their lives.  They aren't going to give up this arrangement easily.  You have to be absolutely clear with them and be the bad guy if you need to bo.

Stuck in the middle

Wilted wrote:

I'm no longer able to take care of him safely by myself.

Please tell that to YOUR lawyer, first thing Monday.  And proceed immediately to eviction.  

The kids don't want to tell their Dad what to do, and I don't blame them, but he's their father and it's their responsibility.  You are not next of kin, they are.

If you want to help the kids get a letter from the doctor, that's fine, but do it while taking steps to assure your own safety.  

Wilted

He got uncharacteristically angry with me this morning. He's been hostile toward me all day. He was a black belt martial arts instructor. Further escalation could end badly. 

We are at the ER. Doctor does not believe it's safe to send him home. 

He will either be admitted or transfered to a care facility.

The kids have been notified. 

Stuck in the middle

I'm glad you and he are safe.  God be with you.

jmlarue

Good, you've escaped. Now, don't run back inside that burning building. Absolutely DO NOT go back to the hospital and take him back to your home when his kids fail to take responsibility for him.

Quilting brings calm

I’m glad you are safe… although I am sure you are extremely stressed out.  I know you want to be kept informed and feel like you need to have input… but it is in your best interest( and actually his) for you to say  the following repeatedly to anyone that will listen

We are not married.  I am not his POA  I am not his next of kin   I am not legally responsible  for him.  His name is not on my home.  It is my home, not his.  I cannot take care of him - it is not safe for him or me. 

Those are the  only things that will save you from being told to take him home with you.   Contact the hospital social worker and tell them that  the kids are the next of kin and he should be released to them if he is released.  Then go home and put whatever belongings are his into that travel trailer and refuse to allow him or the kids admittance to your home.   The kids can come back in a few weeks without him is they want to be sure they’ve collected everything of his. 

Sign nothing that says you are responsible, 

dayn2nite2

Wilted wrote:

He got uncharacteristically angry with me this morning. He's been hostile toward me all day. He was a black belt martial arts instructor. Further escalation could end badly. 

We are at the ER. Doctor does not believe it's safe to send him home. 

He will either be admitted or transfered to a care facility.

The kids have been notified. 

Good.  Do not go to the hospital for any reason.  If they call, give them his kids' phone number and tell them that's next of kin.  Do not have any discussions with them or him regarding coming back to your home or even regarding his future.  That is his kids' job.

It's over.  After you give them the phone number they need, do not accept any further calls.  You will still probably need to evict, so I would see an attorney Tuesday, just to make sure things are done legally.

Wilted

I am his POA but I can't take care of him. I don't feel either one of us would be safe in my home. 

I will tell the hospital social worker that the kids are the next of kin and he should be released to them if he is released. 

Wilted

I left a message with the caseworker, letting her know that the son and daughter were the next of kin and I gave her their phone numbers.

MaryG123

What a nightmare Wilted.  You have been so strong, and now he will get the care he needs and you can rest and recover.  I’m so sorry you are going through this.  Hugs. O

Wilted

Thank you. 

The advice from everyone here has been so helpful. You have no idea - well, you probably do.

I'm packing up his things. 

I know I'm doing the right thing but the agony is excruciating. 

dayn2nite2

I know it's hard.  It may get harder if the children are angry.  But this is really the only way you're going to get out from under this burden.  As you said, you cannot take care of him all by yourself anymore, it's no longer safe for you or for him, and his children had no incentive to take action because you were doing all the work.

You can now take care of the things you need to take care of and try to reclaim your life.  If the children call, the only message you should return would be one where you arrange a time for them to pick his things up and if they try to talk you into taking him back on the promise that they'll finally file for guardianship, don't fall for it.  They can take him to their home(s) and file with him in their care.

JJ401

You may be first on his POA, but one of the children should be second. (All of the POA’s I have seen name a second person if the first cannot serve.) Tell whichever of the children that is named second it’s time for them to step up. If the hospital has a copy of the POA, tell them you are no longer serving, and to call whoever is second.

Wilted

His case manager called to let me know his children were taking over as medical POA for their father. She said their authority supersedes mine because they are next of kin.

I think that's PERFECT!

MaryG123

That’s excellent news Wilted!  Good for them, and for you for sticking to your plan.

Quilting brings calm

I’m glad to hear it.

Joydean

So glad to hear you will be safe and can take a deep breath and hopefully relax a little! Prayers for you!

Wilted

Turns out taking him to the ER was the right thing to do. His thyroid was way out of whack, there was something going on with his kidneys and some other blood tests were off. The doctors said I am not qualified to provide the care he will  need from here on out. 

He's been in the ER for over a week. The hospital is trying to get him placed temporarily in a psych facility. Unfortunately, they're having a hard time placing him because he's uncooperative (they had to call the police and sudate him at one point) and the kids have no plan for him after discharge from the psych facility. 

He may become a ward of the state. 

I'm still heart broken. I'm going to look into getting some grief counseling.