What is the competency threshold for guardianship and conservatorship?

M1

Thanks for the update Wilted.  Can you resign as his POA?  Is an alternate named?  That may yet come up.

Quilting brings calm

Wilted, I think counseling is definitely a good idea.   You’ve been through a really tough period and you need to work through your feelings.  

It’s good that there are a few things that can be done medically to help him.  Getting the thyroid treated will help.  It’s also good that the doctor has confirmed that you can’t be the person to provide him with care.  Otherwise I would be afraid that you would get yourself right back in the position you were in a few weeks ago. 

It sounds as if  the children have, at the very least, been in a state of denial regarding his actual condition.  If  it’s denial, then they may come to terms with it as this process  continues.   If it’s estrangement of some sort, then they may not,  it’s really hard to say.   Often there is one offspring that will have an internal war with themselves about it while their  siblings run for the hills.  That  offspring may step up and at least visit him or be involved at some level even if he does become a ward of the state.  It make take several months for this to all play out. 

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Wilted

Initially, the case manager told me that the children were primary POA because they were next of kin and their Authority superseded mine even though my POA had been in writing and witnessed.

Later, the hospital's Patient Advocate informed me that I was still the POA.

The Care Facility he was going to be released to required that the person signing for him except financial responsibility for the patient. There was no way I was going to do that and I immediately notified all that I resigned as the POA.

The kids gave the hospital permission to speak with me since I'm near by and the kids are out of state. I can take him his suitcase when he's ready to be discharged.

I don't go visit him because he gets upset and wants to go home. I'm concerned because the first time I stopped in to see how he was doing he and his room in the bathroom were covered in feces and there was nobody but me available to clean him up. They had given him milk. The milk had upset his intestinal tract in had set him back mentally. At least now they FINALLY have milk on his allergy list.

II notified the patient advocate and case manager.

It's all God's hands right now.

dayn2nite2

No.  Stop visiting.  Do not continue acting as POA (communicating with hospital).  His children need to take care of their father.  You are still doing the heavy lifting while they live their lives.

You need to detach from this because eventually the children and the hospital will talk you into taking him back.

You have done your duty.  It’s enough.

Wilted

The doctors have said they don't believe he will get to the point where he will be able to live at home because of behavior issues. And he requires too much supervision and care at this point.

He's refusing to take his pills. He refuses to take his pills, he gets more confused and then more adamantly refuses to take his pills. It's a vicious cycle. I'm concerned he may end up in hospice. 

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dayn2nite2

Wilted wrote:

The doctors have said they don't believe he will get to the point where he will be able to live at home because of behavior issues. And he requires too much supervision and care at this point.

He's refusing to take his pills. He refuses to take his pills, he gets more confused and then more adamantly refuses to take his pills. It's a vicious cycle. I'm concerned he may end up in hospice. 

You are so enmeshed in this situation that is not your responsibility.  #1.  Did you see an attorney to discuss whether you should protect yourself by filing to evict him?  #2. Another item would be to find some counseling for yourself to process this and learn ways of detaching.  You may as well have him at your house, you are totally wrapped up in this and the children are living their lives because they don’t have to do anything.  They should arrange to have him transported to where they live and deal with all this.  

Stop taking the calls.  If you have to change your number, do that.  Stop the visits.  So what if he ends up on hospice?  He is not your responsibility.  His children need to take over.

Quilting brings calm

If he ends up on hospice, it will be because he has reached that point in the disease.  Not because you took him to the ER and not because you resigned as the POA.  

Please tell the people calling you to call his children.  They can make decisions over the phone just as easily as you can  and it’s their responsibility and right as next of kin to do so.  The only way they will take over is to be the only ones being called.  

I would give a lot to have my siblings take their turn regarding my mom and my step siblings take their turn concerning my step dad.   You’ve got this one opportunity, and you must take it because you’ve said and  now been told by doctors that you can no longer be the caregiver.  If you’ve been reading Hoots posts and others, they are drowning and begging  for lifelines.  You are trying to throw your lifeline away.   

Wilted

The hospital called and asked me if he could come back.

I explained that his doctor told me I was not able to give him the level of care he needs now (he's refusing his meds. He's gotten extremely confused and agitated and  had to be sedated a couple of times for trying to leave). He may be stuck in that hell hole for another 60 days. 

The kids are turning his care over to the state because the care facilities require them to take financial responsibility. Initially, the facility sent the contract to me. There is no way I would sign that. I can't blame them for not wanting to put their own financial security at risk.

I haven't been back to see him because my visits upset him.

His things have been packed into his truck, ready for his kid to pick up. 

I'm adjusting to my new life being alone for the first time ever. It's hard. 

He was the life of the party. 

MaryG123

Hugs to you Wilted.  I’m so sorry for what you’re going through.  O

JJ401

I’m glad you told the hospital no. It was the right thing to do, for both you and him. Screen your calls as, most likely, they will call again. If you answer be prepared to immediately say that you can not and will not be bringing him to your home. You can not and will not sign any forms of any kind. Once you say this, stop listening and hang up.

As for the kids, they don’t have to pay for his care. They need to get him signed up for Medicaid. If they don’t, he’ll become a state ward and his care will be provided by Medicaid. The difference is that the kids will, if he is a state ward, have no say in his care. For you, there is no difference. You have no say either way. 

I agree with the posters who suggested counseling. Counseling can be a great help when dealing with difficult situations.

Twin Mom

I don't know the state Wilted is in , but depending on the state there may be filial laws which could be used to make the children responsible for their dad's care.  Some states are now beginning to enforce their filial laws that have been on the books for a very long time, but mostly never enforced.  I would not assume a parent or child does not have filial responsibilities without checking with legal first.

Crushed

Wilted wrote:

Initially, the case manager told me that the children were primary POA because they were next of kin and their Authority superseded mine even though my POA had been in writing and witnessed.Later, the hospital's Patient Advocate informed me that I was still the POA. There was no way I was going to do that and I immediately notified all that I resigned as the POA.

Just for the record a financial power of attorney and a health care power are not the same thing .  Totally separate functions. and often separate documents


  
 

jfkoc

I have not read every word posted but feel pretty confident in saying that you are dealing with legal issues and proceeding without the advice of an attorney.

You will be the agent in the POA until 1) you resign with written notification or 2) the subject is deemed legally no longer be competant to make decisions or 3) You are removed.  If the document is Durable you will be responsible until you legally resign. 

dayn2nite2

They can't find anyplace to take him and his own children won't do anything.  I knew they would call and ask if he could come back to your house.

Saying no was the right thing to do.  I would fill my time with caring for myself, my pets, long-put-off things on my to-do list, and know that you had no control over this situation.

His children will have to live with themselves.

You have done more than they have by far.

Wilted

I formally resigned as POA in Sept. (I only had medical and mental POA) 

Contrary to what I had been told by the case manager at the hospital, the kids were not automatically next in line as POA. They had to go through the court to get guardianship/conservatorship. The case worker said his court case could be processed in a day as an emergency filing. Turns out he kids were not able to get him out for almost two months. I imagine his savings and everything he worked for all his life will be long gone. 

His kids are in charge now and he is finally in geri-psych for evaluation.

I feel horrible for resigning as the POA. It seemed like the right decision, with the information I had at the time. The nursing home application had wording that would have made me financially responsible. I couldn't risk my financial future. I feel like I let him down but I also felt like I was way in over my head and in a position I shouldn't be in. 

Ed1937

I have no idea how I missed such a long and ongoing thread. I just read every word of it. Wilted, you did the right thing, but it still seems to be gnawing at you. If you can't let it go, please seek counseling.

M1

Glad to hear the update Wilted, and I completely agree with Ed, you did do the right thing.  I know it was hard and must still be painful.  But it WAS the right thing.  I hope you can be at peace with it.