I saw the Doc's nurse this morning

Hoot619

The wife won't let me do anything, every thing is a battle unless it is food. Then I don't know if it is going in her or on the floor.  If she doesn't throw it she will eat it later.  She has a rash on groin and breast area and it turned into infection under breasts.  Smelled awful bad. 

  Sat night after I called 911 and they got here. She had slipped out of our hands when we tried getting her out of chair to another one.  They and I got her up and in clean lazyboy and helped me put med on.  It took 3 of us for the med ointment.  They also took pictures of the area so I could show the Doc.

I took them in Nurse and Doc saw them.  Nurse said we will order meds.  I told them that is no help. I can't apply them she won't let me. I made Darn sure that they know that for me to take care of her is IMPOSSIBLE  Now waiting on phone call from Doc's office.

I told them that the only way to get her there is by ambulance. If I get her admitted or to ER she is not coming home. If she stays here she will die here from improper care.

Yesterday was our 57th wedding anniversary and Jan doesn't know it.  This darn* disease sucks!! Hoot              She was somewhat lucid a few times, talked to the dog yelled at the TV- 3-4 word sentences even me with a I love you

Faith,Hope,Love

So sorry you're going thru all of this Hoot.  I'll be praying that the Doctor's office calls soon.  Hang in there!!  Sounds like you are on the right track to getting some much needed help.

Ed1937

Hoot619 wrote:

even me with a I love you

Hoot, even though we would consider that a big win, I know it's hard to see it when you're going through what you are now. Keep repeating that you can't take care of her at home whenever they want to put you on the spot. It's not good for you, and it's not good for her. I wish it were easier.

 

MaryG123

As much as we hate dealing with the ER, it sounds like it’s time to call 911 and have her taken there.  You have documented the at home issues with the local emergency responders and your doc, so there will be a paper trail showing your attempts to care for her yourself.  I think the wait is over.

Jo C.

I am so very sorry, Hoot.   The time for a change is now; the ambulance can take her to the  ER. I would hope she would be admitted to the hospital.  Stress and stress to the physicians involved that you can no longer care for her at home due to the level of care needed and her refusal of care - ALSO stress her not eating, and that there have been abrupt changes in her ability to function and understand -  all of that hopefully will give them a hook to hang their hat on.   The abrupt changes are physical issues that can be used to document acute need to be admitted to the hospital.

NOTE:  Hoot, when and if admitted be absolutely certain that the doctor, whether ER or her primary MD admits her as an inpatient, not an outpatient. Medicare now permits patients to be admitted and remain as an outpatient for many days even though it looks like they are an inpatient.  This would leave you with increased costs as well as her not being approved for rehab should that become an issue.

I would like, as an RN, to suggest that if she is admitted to the hospital, that you ask the doctor right away at time of admission to have a dementia specialist, probably a Neurologist be ordered in as a consult.  This can be done while she is an inpatient and will be a "one stop shop."  That will give good insight on appropriate meds and any other issues a specialist may find.

Best of wishes and so hope you get her to care.   Keep stressing to the doctor the need to get her to the ER and admitted and the changes in condition.   Sometimes one has to be just a wee bit dramatic in presentation in order to really be heard.

Will be waiting to hear how everything is going.

J.

Hoot619

Jo C and Mary, they haven't called yet and I also made myself a note, Jan to be admitted as a in patient.  Can I make them do that? Got her to eat 1 french toast also  she is working om peanut and jelly sandwich.  Half of a  Pepsi drank and starting to calm down some, well I thought she was-yelling right now. Thanks Hoot             I brought her a banana and she thru half her sandwich on floor and screamed at me.  I'm getting to the point where if I don't get her out of here  - I'm going to let know that I can't take it anymore.  I know it isn't her fault but how much can I take.

Ed1937

"Can I make them do that?" In my experience the answer to that is "No". At least it didn't work for me at the time. But as I understand it, now you have the right to fight the outpatient decision at any time, even after release. Hopefully someone will clarify that.

Hoot, you sound pretty desperate. You just have no choice but to make things happen now. I know it's hard, and I'm sorry for that. But you have limits, and it sounds as though you have reached them.

Joydean

Hoot I’m so sorry. You have been a true trooper in all you have been doing. Everyone has limit’s and it sure sounds like you are there. Since the doctor has not called back you may have to just call 911 and have your wife transferred to ER. For her sack and yours. You have a son, can he or your daughter in law (I may have that just backwards) come to your house for moral support? Just trying to throw something out to help. Know sending prayers for you both.

Hoot619

They never called.  She did get out of chair and I was able to get her in bathroom and what a mess she was and cleaned her up. She helped a lot screaming etc. I got her meds on, the places look better not weeping anymore.  Gave her a toasted cheese for supper with grape jelly ,she hasn't touched it.   Later tonight will call 911, I'll see if I can get long pants on her first.

Will be letting son and wife  know what I'm going to do.  They both know I'm getting to the point where I could do bodily harm to her . The thoughts are there at times but I think somebody upstairs is watching over both of us.  If I didn't have this forum and my meetings who knows what could happen.  Thanks all for your concerns and prayers.  Hoot or Ken

toolbeltexpert

Ken call 911 get her to the er. Then stick to your guns, It's not safe at home.keep saying that. That is what I did, then ask for a geripsych, or placement. then repeat its not safe at home. I am sorry it has turned for the worse. It will work out. Prayers are being lifted up for you both.

Jo C.

Hoot:  This is now a CRISIS situation.  Do not worry about getting pants on her, ambulance and ER staff are very used to seeing everything.  It is crucial to do this now. Please reach for the phone and call.

Please Hoot; call that ambulance; doesn't matter time of day or night, doesn't matter what one is wearing; doesn't matter if she is in a stooled diaper, etc.  That is not anything that has not been seen before in the healthcare setting and you will not be blamed.

You have reached the state of needing immediate relief for both of you.  You are both suffering and you are both in need. 

If you need to speak to someone immediately at any time just to be heard, do not forget that there is the Alzheimer's Assn. 24 Hour Helpline that can be reached at (800) 272-3900,  If you call, tell  the nice person answering the phone that you need to be transferred to a Care Consultant on an URGENT basis.  There are no fees  for this service and Consultants are highly educated Social Workers who specialize in dementia and they are very supportive.

As for getting admission as an inpatient; no need to force anything - just  tell  the doctor when he or she states admission will be done that you wanted to be sure she is admitted on an inpatient status.  That will more than likely not be an issue.

If you feel like becoming physical with her; please leave the room immediately and call for that ambulance - do NOT risk her or yourself.

We are with you in spirit,

J.

Hoot619

I just called they are on the way. I let them know I was afraid of hurting her that I had it. Thanks all   Hoot

When I get back home I'll be back on here

Quilting brings calm

 I don’t know if you still have a sponsor  or if there are late evening meetings where you are… go if there are,  otherwise keep posting here tonight.   You may be so exhausted when you get back that you will just go to bed… that’s ok too. 

It’s mentally, physically and emotionally exhausting dealing with a person with dementia. They just wear you down so much and you just can’t ever get De-stressed.   

You made the right call,  Now comes the part where you have to repeat your statements to everyone over and over and keep doing so.  You know what’s coming because you’ve seen it discussed here.  Don’t let the hospital wear you down. 

Hoot619

Well she is on her way, they said something about I would need her pants to bring her home. I DON'T  think so.

 The deputy sheriff was out too, he was the one out looking for me about 3 years ago out deer hunting. I got turned around in de woods leaving blind. I got back by myself just after midnight.I let him know I wasn't coming after her to bring her home!!  Have to call the kids. Thanks all Hoot

Hoot619

Well I saw the  EM Doc they are going to keep her overnight, I'm to see a social worker in the morning.  

I'm suppose to get a good night's sleep and I guess that is suppose to fix me up. Well they better think again.  No way in hell is she coming home.  They are going to be running a UTI  test on her and I guess a few others.  Thanks all for getting me off my butt and pushing the issue,  Hoot and thanks again

toolbeltexpert

Hoot that's good news. If they do a culture that can take awhile for results. Please try to have some sleep. She is in good hands.  Again praying for you both.

Hoot619

Actually I feel pretty darn good . Just finished off the goose breast that I browned off  (it was sliced and tenderized ) and slow cooked with cream of mushroom soup. Only trouble is that it is all gone.

I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I can relax . Now I can use the camera on the dog, he likes to eat off the kitchen counter, tables by our ft.room chairs. I can even think about other things.  I have a meeting in the morning will stop at hospital after it.

  I have to give a open talk Wednesday night, probably going to be a rough one but with my fellowship and you people here I've been able to get all thru this without taking a drink . May have thought a little about it but others have gone out for me. I can learn from that. Hoot

I'm heading for bed and a book and hot salasa with blue corn chips, Good night all Hoot

MaryG123

Well done Mr. Hoot, and sleep well.  I’m glad your wife will get the help she needs.

Jgirl57

Thank you for sharing your experience so far.

Hoping tomorrow goes well.

Jo C.

I can hear the relief in your voice.   You did the right thing and got it done; now for a little corner of heaven:  under the covers with a good book and a good snack, in peace.

Sleep well,

J.

Ed1937

Good for you and her Hoot. I'm glad it's going well. Just reading the way your post was written, it's obvious that a lot of stress is way down. There were quite a few of us who were really concerned about you.

F&E

Good job Hoot.you are a good husband

Hoot619

Boy oh boy, you all are one great caring bunch of caregivers not only for yourselves and your LO's but for other caregivers that are going thru rough times.  I can't thank you enough.

Well I'm heading for my meeting first than to the library then back home. I'll let them call me and set the time for the social worker.  Hoot

Joydean

I hope you did get a good nights sleep, you sure deserve it. You have been through a lot lately. Glad you got your wife to hospital and now she is safe and so are you. Praying she will get the help she needs. Hope your meeting helps! Take care and we all DO CARE about you and your family.

Faith,Hope,Love

Even though none of us are related, I think we are all one family here.  We're all sharing this experience with you Hoot.  Please keep us posted.  You are in my prayers!

jmlarue

This has been crazy-hard for you and for her, Hoot. Holding you close in my thoughts and prayers.

Hoot619

Thanks again, it is 12:23 here and they haven't called yet. They don't call I don't go there. Our Doc never did call either and that grinds me somewhat. The Doc must know she is there. I think I'm going to get off this for a while and read my book. Hoot

Quilting brings calm

It’s possible that her doctor does not know she is there.  Many hospitals these days have their own internal hospitalists and they never call the person’s  actual  doctor.   There is no  care continuity as a result

Jo C.

Glad you had a good, quiet night.

 So many thoughts:

 Question is:   Did the hospital hold her overnight on a guerney in the ER - or did they place her on a regular hospital unit in a regular hospital  bed?

If held in the ER; things will be more dicey for them keeping her and accomplishing arrangements.  Did you call to check on her condition and status, or will you be doing so for sure this a.m.?  You do not want to have zero contact and be documented as having abandonened her as we know you have not done that, but they do not.   

(Yes; people actually do that ; sometimes, an elderly demented person is brought to the ER not by ambulance by a family member; they give an incorrect name for the patient and then disappear before giving any other information.  I have seen that several times over my career.   Shocking.)

As for the Social Worker; do you know for certain that she was referred to a Social Worker or could that have slipped through the cracks and you may need to make that contact yourself?

Otherwise, if being held in the ER and no active Social Worker contact; arrangements will not be getting made and they may not agree to hold her for another day or more if her condition does not warrant it to be covered by insurance for medical necessity. 

I do not know how old you are.  You will need to make this a situation in which you are NOT able to care for her any longer due to the complex, heavy care needs, 24/7 .  If you are older, have medical conditions of your own, if it is unsafe for her care level at home with inability to manage, etc.  All go into the need for placement.  Do not make the only "unsafe" care being that you think of harming her; that is part of it in the worst of times and you can share that, but the big unsafe portion is that you are no longer able to do the hands on care; it is too complex inlcuding the basics and goes 24 hours a day and you are not well yourself nor capable of doing so.

Do know that you will probably not be able to get her into the facility that is your first choice.  The SW will help you make arrangements; but once a bed is found at any care facility, then your wife is considered  ready for discharge whether you approve of the facility setting or not.  You can always move her to the desired facility later when a bed becomes available.

As for your physician; it does not sound as though he is going to make a call at this point.  If he is actually your wife's MD; and if he has seen her at least during the last year, or is calling presciptions for her, he is still primary MD of record.   He would have been notified of your wife's admission to the ER and what her condition or diagnosis is.   It appears that you cannot wait for a call from him - it has been far too long since you spoke to the nurse (who may be a nurse or may not be - could be an office person; could be a trained office assistant.  A "nurse" would have a license and be an RN or LVN) . . .

Long way around for me to say that when you are going to be available by cell phone or home phone, it would be best for you to make that call again to the doctor's office and expresss you NEED to speak to the doctor as he has not returned your call and your wife is in the hospital, etc. etc. If he does not call back by end of day late afternoon or early evening after his office closes, then I would think he is not going to make contact. I am so sorry this is happening.  Very frustrating.

If your wife is admitted as an inpatient to the hospital for some more days, then he would probably be the primary care MD making decisions.

 Okay; so glad you are going to the meeting this morning; that is big time important and you are doing a great job staying connected especially under the circumstances.

If a placement is found or if she stays in the hospital, you will need to be able to have some clothing put together along with shoes, socks, etc. to take to a care facility when she transfers. Perhaps a family member could help with that so you are ready.

Enough of my prattling; today is the day to hopefully move forward.  I send warmest of thoughts and best of wishes for all to have a good outcome.  Let us know how it is going.

J.

Hoot619

This is a small town less than 3000 pop. 1 hospital and also has a MCF attached.  They know me and my wife. Seems funny they haven't called. I haven't eaten yet so will fix me a sandwich and then go to the hospital.  Might as well find out what is happening. Hoot   I have no idea what they did with her, they told me to go get some rest and be back in the morning. Which I didn't do.

Hoot619

All I found out was she is in a room and calmed down a lot. Tracy the patient advocate told me to go home do what I want. They are keeping her but trying to place her. They are waiting for a call from Schoolcraft MCF in Manistique.  They never tried at all to get me to take her home.

I'm going back to my book and later get some clothes ready for her if they can  find a place ..  Hoot   Yes and thanks again  She is in reg. hospital bed.