Help with how to have the driving discussion . . .

Traveler18

I am new to the community so if someone can point me toward prior posts on the topic, that would be great. My DH is only 65 and moving toward the far end of moderate in his journey, of course he won't admit there are any issues. He has been really good about letting me do the driving (he has only driven a couple of times in the past nine months), but we saw his GP today and next week we see the neurologist for his annual check-in and I'm thinking they will recommend a driving test. I'm not optimistic on the outcome for the process and the test. His number one passion/hobby has been sport-touring and off-road motorcycle riding. Right now he "works" on the bikes in our garage - but the batteries are not charged and the work impedes the ability to ride and has been the deterrent to riding. Actually losing his license (which will happen at some point in the future) will remove any hope of riding again ever. He already suffers from depression due to the lack of ability/attention to do the things he used to enjoy doing. This would put him over the edge. He is cognizant enough that I can't just "hide the keys." This will turn into a formal conversation with a medical professional soon. GP introduced the need today, but DH blocked it out within a couple of hours and was back working on the bikes. We already have a lot of oppositional/control issues that I am trying to navigate, so I'm trying not to have it seem that I am locking up the keys. Any thoughts on how to frame the discussion and support him through this transition?

Lkrielow99

I’m having the same issues with my DH. My plan is to place the key in a different place (hide, lol) and help him find them. After a couple minutes I can say “I’ll bring you and we will look when we get back.” My plan won’t work until I’m finished with work, so I can’t do much till then. Wishing you the best and looking forward to other’s experience.

Traveler18

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/208432#Comment_208432

I'll have to see if he remembers that we have "tiles" on everything. Should be able to locate them with that.

ThisLife

Driving is a huge discussion/issue especially for men. At the top right of the screen there is the search symbol (magnifying glass.) Click on it and type driving. You will find lots of threads on driving. It is frequently mentioned that doctors will not be the bad guy and leave it to the family. And as you have discovered, he is not going to remember it was mentioned. Even when someone else has told a PWD they cannot drive, you will probably be the lightning rod for his anger. I had an evaluation done, and he passed. My DS talked with dad and told him he needed to stop driving. After a few months, it became me who wouldn't let him drive. A PWD driving is a liability issue. If they have an accident, hurt/kill someone or damage property, you could be sued in civil court and lose everything you have. Just some food for thought.

mrahope

And unfortunately, the driving issue is one that "keeps on giving". Even though my DH had been told by two doctors to give up driving, he managed to get an appointment and try to go to the DMV for testing. My DS had to literally turn away two rideshare service cars that he had called. Just a word to say that you may have to address this issue more than once.

PeggyLouGA

When my husband, who has Alzheimer's, was showing challenges with driving by getting confused about how to get where he was going, excessive u-turns, etc. I talked to his doctor. The doctor and I agreed to have an open discussion, the three of us, about driving and we did. The doctor let me talk to my concerns and then he told my husband that he felt he should consider giving up driving because he (my husband) was no longer a safe driver. On the way home from that visit, my husband told me he would not try to drive anymore but he wanted to keep his license. I agreed and about a month later, we sold his truck. So, I say use your doctor to make the difficult decisions…the patient is more likely to listen to someone (anyone) other than the care giver. Wishing you the best!

Traveler18

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/208542#Comment_208542

Yes, the doctor tried to open the discussion on that point - his safety and the safety of others. He didn't want to hear it, so promptly forgot or ignored the conversation. He does not like to be told what to do (seat belt on, you really need to shower, only one shirt is needed) so telling him he shouldn't be driving is a tough one. His one passion in life is riding motorcycles and as the weather warms in MN, thinking he will never ride again will be really, really hard. We will be back through this with his neurologist next week (who he does not like since he provides all of the bad messaging) and we'll see how it goes. I will leverage your point and lobby in where it may help (you aren't comfortable with how close the cars are on the side, seem unsure what I should be doing at a blinking yellow arrow, etc.). I'm guessing the driving test may be the compromise, but I think it will generate more obstinate behavior to inspire him to drive.

Traveler18

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/208483#Comment_208483

Yep, that is my concern and he can not like me for it, but his answer when he doesn't like what I say is to "leave" so I'll need to hide the keys (but put them somewhere our teenage son can still find them and use them) and "find" him before he walks off too far.

Thank you for the search tip. I was thinking that searched the whole site not the discussion threads. Duh. I'll go there to look up additional thoughts. Much appreciated!

ronda b

Finally had to tell my dh if he has a wreck while driving we could get sued and lose everything.

This came after he became lost( he has 360 on his phone) and it took an hour to get him home. I would tell him to turn lt and he would turn rt.. would ask him to pull over so I could get him ,refused. He did a u turn on a very busy road. As of now he isn't driving and keys are put up. I don't know if I should take the care key off his key ring or not.

Lhuerta

There was no reasoning with my DH about driving. We tried everything including having his Doctor tell him he couldn't drive, taking a test with the Neurologist that said he couldn't drive, explaining the insurance liability, hiding the keys and disabling the starter. He just forgot and would try again to find a way to drive the car. Finally, we pulled a DMV logo from the internet and created a formal letter that said a new law required people over 65 to take a driving test and until that happened, his license was invalid. It was very official looking and I even mailed it from the post office so he would get it in our mailbox with the postage stamp and everything. I think having that physical letter to remind him really helped. We still hide the keys and I'm always careful to jump in the drivers seat before he gets to the car, but he is no longer bothered about not being able to drive.

hiya

My Dr sent DH to a driving assessor. He didn’t get by the verbal/written testing they did for reaction time, distractions. She told him he could try again in a year (which we know isn’t going to happen). The positive is the decision was made by someone other than me. I told him our car insurance called to say he was no longer covered until he tests again in a year. I took the key off his key ring and said it must have fell off…even ‘tried’ to look for it with him. The batteries are now dead in car. When DH brings up finding where we can get keys, I simply say yes, we will do that as soon as you get insurance and license back. It’s gone from a daily to weekly to bi-weekly conversation. It tough.

J50

It has been almost a year since we hid the pickup truck. We sold it several months later, without his knowledge. The state has revoked his license and insurance was canceled for him. That means nothing to him. He still is angry about it and we have had a few standoffs. Luckily, on those occasions, we were not on a time schedule. It was easy to walk back in the house with the keys. I'm keeping my car locked so he cant get in before me. He asks where the truck is or who has it, every day. At first I tried to make a joke of it, e.g., "I'm driving Mr. Daisy, or 'You drove the first 54 years, I'll drive the next 54'". Every few days he gets very upset. I am so tired of arguing about it. I don't expect change very soon. I think it will be the last thing he says! Any advice on handling this would be appreciated.

M1

Welcome to the forum J50. This is such a hot button topic and the repetitive nature of it seems to never go away. I don’t think there is anything to do except not respond and keep your keys locked away. My partner was looking for her truck on Sunday-she has been in memory care for two years and conflict/threats of violence over driving is what put her there. Another frequent poster says her dad was talking about driving and wanting his keys til the day he died, literally.

Marta

If at all possible, don’t respond in an argumentative way. Validate his feelings, such as: “I know you love to drive. This must be so hard for you.” This takes practice. Watch some Naomi Feil videos about validation.

SDianeL

after my DH was tested, the Neuro Psychologist said that under no circumstances should he be driving. She said once it's in his medical records and he were to be involved in an accident, whether it was his fault or not, we could be sued and lose everything. That he could run in the back of someone or run over someone and kill them. It was a gut punch for me. I had no idea. She said he had visuospatial difficulties and couldn't determine speed, distance, time, etc. It then hit me that he had been driving very slowly for awhile. The next day I sat my DH down and told him what the doctor said. That it wasn't safe for him to drive. He was upset but the next day he brought me his keys and never drove again. It broke my heart the look on his face but it had to be done. Fib if you must but get those keys or disable the vehicle.

FriendinMaryland

Dementia and Driving - with Teepa Snow of Positive Approach to Care

https://youtu.be/OIRlkXUQbIg?si=Pv81WVmqnlMqJcbA

addy103

I'm going through this now with my husband, who has moderate Alzheimer’s. I will not go in a car with hime after he passed two cars on a double yellow in the rain and I was facing a car coming head on. This is not the first poor decision he has made driving. I brought it up with his Nuerologist, and she is going to bring it up at our next visit and refer him. There will be a cognitive test and possibly a driving test. He will pass the driving test, it's not about his skills; it's about his decision making skills. Hopefully, the cognitive test will be enough to stop him. I doubt he will listen either way.

ButterflyWings

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/212106#Comment_212106

This is a frequent topic here with strong feelings expressed. I am one of the blunt ones on this topic. He (and the person he injures or worse) may not be so lucky the next time. Please disappear the keys and disable or disappear the car. Usually discussing, Drs orders, cancelled license, etc. will not stop a PWD with anosognosia (no awareness that they are impaired).

You are absolutely right, the problem is brain damage and impaired judgment, vision, spatial reasoning, reflexes, timing, and recall for exactly what to do when - often simultaneously. "Accident waiting to happen" is an understatement. Please think of the innocent, unsuspecting people who are sharing the road with him, who don't know what you do. Many of us have had to get our LOs out of the driver's seat. It really is a life or death matter, and is extremely urgent.

JDancer

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/212106#Comment_212106

You won't go in a car with him, but are you allowing him to drive?

addy103

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/212192#Comment_212192

How do I stop him? He can be violent.

ButterflyWings

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/212209#Comment_212209

Addy, first let me commend you for putting your foot down on not riding with him given the circumstances (he can be violent). That is a huge first step, and very hard to do as well as being dangerous.

OK, your question highlights one of the reasons I believe most of the published professional guidance on this issue falls short. As our forum mates are saying, this is a very serious urgent matter and even the Alz Assoc recommendations are to discuss, enlist others, have the PWD sign a contract, etc. Yeah, Right.

In many situations including yours and mine, confronting them even gently can be the worst possible approach — causing dangerous implications and still not stopping the driving. My DH was never violent but refused to listen to either me or his Dr and was ready to fire them (and seriously would easily have divorced me over this if I had pressed the issue).

So, I realized immediately that I had no choice but to do what I am recommending to you. DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL. You are about to go into stealth mode, as if your life depended on it because it sounds like it could. In my case, I needed to keep DH's trust and cooperation especially in those early days, to get legal and financial matters, POA etc in my hands. Challenging him in any way would have backfired and even enlisting some family members was not helpful as they kept throwing me under the bus. "She said…yada yada". So unless you know for sure you can trust a friend or family member to keep your secret plans then do not tell them either.

Job One: Disappear any weapons or anything in your home that can be weaponized. Keep your phone, a charger, keys and ID on you at all times (I even slept with my purse under my pillow for years until he forgot there was such a thing as a car.) Had he ever gotten rough with me or threatened me with physical harm I would have left immediately.

Job Two: Disappear his keys (including extra sets), batteries from the garage door remote, disable the vehicle, park it out of sight if you need it for your own transport.

Job Three: You will need a Dr's help for meds most likely. Is there a diagnosis already? Do you have allies?

I never took an acting class in my life, but can now pretend with the best of them though the days of sabotaging his escape routes, undoing expensive actions (where possible), etc. is behind us. And Alz taught me it is not dishonest to fib (or outright bald-faced lie), or learn quickly to bring your best alter ego to this task when it comes to getting things done and keeping a PWD calm (and in the dark on things they don't need to know which is most things once brain disease shows up). If I did it, you can too.

Dementia demands a lot and this is one of the biggest hurdles. We urge people to put on their grown up pants as they say and just do it. Whatever needs to be done. And I will say again having lived with a violent person in a former life - you are doing things from now on- SECRETLY. This is not disloyal or wrong, it is wise and necessary. For you, him, and others to not be harmed due to inaction by the only one with an intact brain. Unfortunately, that is our lot. As DH's neuro team told me, "you are in charge now".

Your LO is not the same person you married anymore so reasoning with them is no longer going to work and our vows said nothing about dementia which is a total game changer. In this case, he can't be behind the wheel anymore. And it sounds like he cannot know that you are the one behind the change. My DH never knew. I helped him look for the keys, and the car, tried to fix the garage door and remote, hooked up the jumper cables while he tried to restart the car that mysteriously wouldn't start (and no I did not really hook up the cables - faked it after leaving the lights on so the battery died - did that a few times), volunteered to run point with the mechanic, tow company, police, etc. and acted really baffled and disappointed when these things took so long. Before distracting him which meds helped allow.

Some of those "helping him fix the car" conversations happened, others did not, but after many dead batteries, broken garage doors, lost keys and key fobs, and eventually a missing car (totally innocent look on my face throughout), I finally got rid of the car and he can't drive my push button one thank goodness.

BE SAFE. I am so sorry you and others are going through this. I remember it was weeks of stress and fear for me, without even thinking he might intentionally hurt me for keeping him and others safe from a dangerous driver. Stealth mode. Hugs and encouragement.

M1

addy my partner also got violent over driving and that’s what landed her in the hospital and then in memory care. But before that I also had to hide all the keys and also ran the batteries down. Definitely report any threats of violence to his doctors. You can’t help him if you don’t stay safe yourself.

M1

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