Preventing her from driving is worth it, right??

jmack8

Oh man. We had several good weeks with my mom but for the past two weeks or so, she's been very upset! She (at one point) knew that she could not drive. And we have let her know that she failed the cognitive test which means she'll never legally drive again. But she is ADAMANT that she wants her keys to her car. And that somehow she'll learn how to pass the test and will be able to drive again. Although most of the time I'd say she is good for her word, she does have moments where she is so out of it that I am concerned that she'll start up her car and drive it away!

So 1.5 weeks ago when she was mad at my Dad, she told me she'd be ok if I had the key instead of him. So I took the key. But now I will not give it back to her and she is upset. I tried many different ways to avoid the question, redirect her, delay it, etc. but I finally had to utterly refuse to give it back to her.

She's upset with me which means I am less effective with her! (Normally I'm the soother! My Dad is the primary caregiver) I'm also getting a bit of grief from her friends.

I feel strongly that she should not have keys to a functional car. I actually think she should sell it! It is a CONSTANT source of contention.

I feel like the car issue has brought us to a collision between the harsh reality of her condition and our constant efforts to calm and soothe her. We are running out of therapeutic fibs to tell her. She is laser focused on driving again. And I'm so torn on how to handle this. Without the cognition issue, I'd be all for telling her the truth! But in this condition I feel like she'd be mourning the "truth" she hears from us each time, without ever being able to move forward!

My Dad is hesitant to sell the car. I understand where he is coming from on one hand. It will be seen as a MAJOR betrayal from her family. I don't know if we can come back from that?

Would love any perspectives you can add!

dancsfo

I don't know what fibs you already used, I would use another fiblet and state it's broken and waiting for parts. You can do something like pull the wires from the batteries or somehow immobilize it so it won't start (so it looks like it is broken). If enough time passes, perhaps the issue will be forgotten if she has sufficiently impaired memory.

It's worth it to prevent her driving. It avoids running over somebody, or killing herself in a crash.

mabelgirl

you are absolutely doing what must be done. It breaks my heart when I hear stories of elderly people with dementia driving into ponds/lakes or driving off the road not to be found. We kept telling my brother my mom should not be driving and he just kept saying she was fine. Then she got lost in the mountains of VA with his baby granddaughter in the car for several hours. Thank God someone helped her get home. My mom has anosognosia like your mom , where they just don’t recognize their deficits. For your mom safety and other drivers on the road she can not be allowed to drive. Unfortunately outsiders can’t appreciate what you’re dealing with. We had her sell the car to my other brother in order to keep her from driving. Is there someone needy she knows that she may see the benefit of selling the car? Otherwise you may need to disable the car so she can’t drive it and then she and your father may become more open to selling it.

M1

You are definitely doing the right thing. Lives are at stake.

Can you move it away from their house- perhaps out of sight, out of mind? Take it to your house or somewhere else and tell her it's in for service, waiting on a part. At least that way seeing it is not a constant trigger.

Does your dad hold her poa? He will likely need it to sell it unless he's on the title. Carmax is an easy place to sell a used car these days. I'd do it and get it over with asap.

Cranddi

I was in a similar situation with my wife. She failed a driving test (simulator), but couldn't understand why she couldn't drive, "because she's never had an accident". Almost every time we would go into the garage, seeing her old car would trigger a rant or sobbing spell. I was able to sell her on a story about why we needed a larger SUV with AWD (it really does make it nice to take the grandkids), so we traded in both our cars and bought the SUV. It really made an amazing difference. Out of sight, out of mind.

SusanB-dil

Definitely agree - she could hurt herself or someone else. With diagnosis, insurance would NOT have to pay, so there is a lot on the line, here.

Agreeing with disabling the car. If she gets really insistent, you could even have her try to start it, making certain it is disabled. If it would help, get it out-of-sight/out-of-mind. Then say the car has a recall, so it won't start and had to be towed. The car is in the shop and the part is on backorder. Repeat as necessary.

chrisjoy

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/222510#Comment_222510

I'm not the original poster, but I'm following this discussion because we are dealing with a similar issue. Can you say more about "with diagnosis, insurance would not have to pay"? Do you mean if the person with a diagnosis does drive and they caused an accident and the insurance company found out, there is some kind of clause that says they won't pay for damages created by a person with certain diagnoses?

SusanB-dil

hi @chrisjoy yes, that is exactly the case. There are other posts about this as well.

If there has been an official diagnosis, and the PWD gets into an accident, the insurance company does not have to pay. Not sure about any clause, but legally, a diagnosed PWD cannot drive, so that would cover it, clause or not. In very early stages, they may not be diagnosed yet, but you figure, by the time they get officially diagnosed, they probably should not be driving.

M1

Yes chris, if there's a record that a person with dementia has been advised not to drive, insurance would not cover and they ( including poa) could be sued for everything they own. On top of that, there's the issue that even if not at fault, someone with dementia cannot remember to provide adequate testimony at any deposition.

Find out if your state allows anonymous reporting to the DMV, many do. But lack of insurance or a valid license will not deter some, so that's why the advice always includes removing and/or disabling the vehicle and securing the keys.

dancsfo

For example, your state's DMV may have a rule:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-education-and-safety/medical-conditions-and-driving/dementia/

And the National Institute of Aging states

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/safety/driving-safety-and-alzheimers-disease

Note that depending on the state, they may "automatically revoke a license" upon diagnosis. But as @M1 states, it may not deter her, so I'd disable the car, sell it, etc,

The core issue may be a desire to visit some place, or have independence (i.e. not rely on you for transportation, maybe thinking she is a burden). So perhaps some alternative transportation methods may address some of those concerns. However, simply putting her in a cab to visit a place of her choice probably isn't safe. But if it's to go to someplace where there's someone who will greet and supervise her, then it may be okay.

scoutmom405

My FIL ended up surrendering his license after I went to his primary Dr with many concerns. His Dr agreed but wanted to put a "pin in it" since too many life changes were happening. A week later he wrecked & landed in a pond by the Navy base & 2 off duty pilots rescued him.

Now a few days before the wreck he walked into his insurance agency & demanded to drop his car insurance to liability. So he lost 18k & did not receive a check for a totaled car.

A month later he was so sure his Dr would give him his license back. That went on for a year.

All of this happened the 1st month he moved in with us bc his Dr said he could no longer live alone. My BIL had a stroke & no longer could be his caregiver. We had no idea how fast he would progress with cognitive decline.

It's hard when they lose independence. You see the danger when they no longer can.

If you can, disable the car. Maybe that will help if she thinks it's broke down.

housefinch

Yes. A friend’s husband with dementia was found by the state highway patrol disoriented, by the side of the highway, having run out of gas. Thankfully he hadn’t hit anyone.

Nancy B21

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/70591/preventing-her-from-driving-is-worth-it-right

YES! You would neve want her to hurt hurself or someone else. My mom failed the cognitive test and the doctor asked her to surrender her keys or else he would have to report her and she would lose the dignity of having a drivers license and have to get an ID card. She surrendered them voluntarily and then forgot about it. Like completely . And called the police on me 3 times that i stole her car. It was the worst i have ever seen her and she was the ugliest she has ever been to me. She eventually got over it, but still talks about her car and wanting it. She now thinks she had to give it up because of a fender bender. IDK where she got that idea but at least she doesnt think i stole her car!! Which BTW we sold and put the money in her account. :)

psg712

Yes, stopping her from driving is worth all the turmoil that it causes. Eventually (might take a good while) she will forget driving and let go of the resentment toward those who took away the keys.

My mom was mad too. Even after we sold the car, she made frequent comments about the fact that she had to depend on others for rides "BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A CAR!" (spoken with seething looks directed at me). Now she never mentions the car or driving at all. She has forgotten the indignity of losing her driving abilities. But we would never have forgotten the tragedy if she had hurt or killed another person.

jmack8

Thank you so much for all the responses. For what it is worth, we already tried "losing" the keys. We tried disabling the car. All of these just bent her efforts towards buying new keys or fixing the car. So instead we "fixed" it and "found" the keys. For a time she was ok with my Dad having the key but she pestered him incessantly. So with her permission, I took the key. Now she wants it back. I really don't think she'll stop fixating on it any time soon. I think right now our plan is:

1. Use her obsession with getting permission to drive to finish her diagnosis. She still needs an MRI so we're going to pose as the doctor's office saying we'll talk to her about her paperwork but we need the MRI results to discuss with her.
2. Once she does this, she does have a doctor's appointment. She's already been told she has failed the exam on basis of her diagnosis. But they will say it again. This is a HARD truth and I hate for her to have to go through that pain again. This time around though, I plan to have her record it somewhere. Because her own writing seems to be the only thing she trusts.
3. Maybe with that piece of acceptable "evidence" she'll permit us (in that mindset) to sell. We will do so rapidly. Hopefully that will get rid of the biggest taunt in her current state!

Thank you for all your comments!!

Wilted Daughter

This brings back nightmare experiences with my mom about no longer being able to drive. I went to her PCP, Reported her to DMV who sent letter informing her she needed to take a driving test. Referred her to driving school to help her take/pass the test, which never happened so DMV suspended license indefinitely until she can take test in a timely fashion, pass. Gave the car to my son, so it was not in the driveway as a constant reminder. After a long while she gave up hope of driving.

Seems easy when written but it was anything but easy. 😳 This too shall pass. Don’t give up on doing the right thing.

Lorraines

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/70591/preventing-her-from-driving-is-worth-it-right

We had to stop my Mom from driving. She was getting lost going to well-known places. Finally she backed into her mailbox damaging it and the car, and was completely unaware. Someone pointed it out to her and she thought her car had been hit. We said 'what if that had been a child instead of a mailbox.' She was angry but fortunately she and my father agreed a long time ago that if the majority of their 3 daughters agreed to something, they would go along with it.

A few months ago I had to take my dad's keys. He was getting lost. The final incident he left to go to the grocery store less than a mile from the Assisted Living Center. He didn't return until 2:30 am. the store closes at 11pm. He was driving for a minimum of 5.5 hours. He stopped for gas twice (we looked at his credit card). He drove 130-140 miles (I had just checked his car mileage for insurance purposes).

I asked him 'what happened last night?' He didn't remember.

He pleaded for a 2nd chance, making me feel horrible. But, fortunately I had his 2nd set of keys, took the car and put it in my driveway in front of my cars…no way to drive it. He was upset with me. But he missed all his medications, and was completely lost for probably 7 hours without making the decision to call for help. It was time.

Thank goodness he agreed long ago to go along with anything his 3 girls agree to.

I have written a letter to myself and given it to my children. Who knows if I'll listen to myself! but, it says 'you're kids love you and have your best interests at heart' 'use an Uber' etc.

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/70591/preventing-her-from-driving-is-worth-it-right

I reported my mother to the state DMV as an unfit driver (there's a form, and you can even do it anonymously). The DMV then requires them to take a driver's test to proof competence or the license is automatically suspended. I conveniently forgot to remind my mother about this letter to her from DMV.

Another thing that you could try is to take actions to render the need for driving less necessary. Start ordering their groceries and meds for home delivery, and anything else that can be delivered to the house. Try to start a habit of this. With any luck, she'll see the benefit of not having to drive and then not press the issue so much. That, and offer to drive her places — make it seem a fun togetherness activity. Make an excuse ("I will be going that way, why don't I drive you…") if/as needed.

kawfire1817

It makes me so much better that fixation on the car and driving isn’t unique. My dad was diagnosed officially in June 2024 with Alzheimer’s dementia. His cognitive decline has been fast. He has gotten so bad in the last few weeks with demanding his car key because he needed to go his other house( there is one) and being so agitated and wound up. That finally we had him admitted to geriatric psych. Nothing we tried has worked including medications. Even today he told my mom on the phone he was driving back to Michigan and they came into his hotel room and took him to the hospital.

SusanB-dil

Hi kawfire1817 - welcome to 'here' but sorry for the reason. Sorry you are dealing with all that. It is tough. Some days more than others.

klsass

We are in the same situation. He had gone for a drive and couldn’t get home. There were other issues too that led to the diagnosis. We are waiting for MRI results and a neurology appointment, but pcp and psychologist have said he shouldn’t drive.
We did the route that…you can’t drive until the doctor clears you. We did…we have to wait on the Mri results…which he just had this week. We said, the doctor said that you can’t drive. The doctor…his pcp…looked at him and said “ legally, I can’t take your drivers license, but you shouldn’t drive “. All he heard…and somehow remembered, is that legally the dr. can’t take his license.
So we just keep saying, you’re not allowed to drive. His response is that there are a lot of people out there that shouldn’t be driving. He used to go to Sheetz every day for coffee and a paper. But we keep the keys and argue with every phone call. The last phone call he said he couldn’t believe that we were doing this to him and don’t call him again. We hate answering the phone because we know what it’s going to be and don’t want to go visit because the same thing happens. But feel like we’re abandoning him.

We would take him places, but he says he doesn’t want that, he doesn’t need a babysitter at 83.

So what do you do? Do you leave them alone? Do you go visit, or take the call, only for everyone to end up upset? I honestly don’t know what to do and we’re under so much stress.

M1

welcome to the forum. So, it sounds like your 83 yo father is living alone? If he can’t drive, things may also be getting to the point that he needs a different living situation, or you at least need to anticipate that eventuality. Do you hold his power of attorney for healthcare and finances? You almost certainly are going to need it. Educate yourself about anosognosia, he likely can’t recognize his deficits and thinks he’s fine. There will be no convincing him otherwise, and you will likely be in the position of having to make decisions for his safety without his consent. Most of us end up there and it is not easy.

Jean loves wildlife

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/222489#Comment_222489

"Out of sight, out of mind" has worked with my DH on other topics. I think the driving issue will be different."

Jean loves wildlife

Yes preventing her from driving is worth it. I'm going through this issue with my DH. Everyone's situation is different, but it is always difficult and is also difficult for someone who hasn't been through it to understand how excruciating it can be.

I want to share a story. I am in the process of setting up a driving test by an occupational therapist for DH— a detailed 2 hr assessment of physical and cognitive skills needed for safe driving. This is what the neurologist wants. Neurologist refuses to give an opinion on whether DH can drive. So we've had to wait 5 weeks for this test (the strain of that being another whole story as DH is fixated on driving the RV on a trip and talks about it almost daily).

Anyway ironically I learned that the father of the administrative assistant who schedules these tests at the clinic, recently was killed in an accident - he had early dementia, family was thinking about how to handle the driving issue, and he took the RV out alone and was killed in a single vehicle accident. His daughter's message in the clinic, about the PWD driving was "Don't let him. That's how my daddy died." Heartbreaking.