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Merla

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harshedbuzz

I would not accept the role of POA if I had to share it with another person with whom I need consensus to act. No way. I would not accept the role of care for a PWD or medical decision making unless I had oversight of their finances as well. I've read too many threads where aging parents split responsibility to sign on for that nonsense. One common version is joint among siblings where one is the hold-out on paying for care in order to preserve assets for an eventual inheritance— this can happen if the duties are shared by co-POAs or if the duties are split with son taking the financial piece and daughter getting the caregiving.

I am also of the opinion that the medical decision-maker needs to be able to get to the ER as quickly as the PWD when needed. A copy of the POA/Advanced Medical Directive in the glove box of your car is a great idea.

HB

H1235

I have DPOA and it was effective immediately. It’s my understanding that it is a springform DPOA that needs to put into effect by a doctor. I believe the D (durable) means it remains active even if the person becomes incapacitated. This is why most here talk about a DPOA. A POA I think would not be active if the person was incapacitated. So I’m not sure why you would want that. My moms lawyer would not appoint two people to share responsibility as DPOA. I don’t think it’s a good idea either. It’s complicated enough keeping track and saving recipes for every penny I spend. I would not want to have two people trying to do it. The lawyer said it would cause problems and I agree. The medical POA I share with my brother. But as the DPOA the doctor always just contacts me. They ask me if she should get a flu shot, or if medicine can be changed. I’m not sure why my brother is not included. We also had mom do a living will. It just goes through what kind of medical intervention she would want or not want. For example, feeding tube, chemo, resuscitation etc. When you get her settled you will want to make sure the doctor/hospital/AL all have copies on file. I’m not a lawyer, this is just my understanding of it. Hope this helps.

M1

the terms may differ but you want POA that is effective immediately, you do not want to have to wait for her to be declared incompetent. Do not split the responsibility. Your brother can be named the backup to take effect if you cannot serve.

​fesk

I agree with not splitting the responsibility for power of attorney or health representative. Our lawyer did not recommend that. Also, I don't see why the paperwork would need to be redone. I think you brother should be named as successor in these papers.

mabelgirl

I had POA for my granddaughter while she was deployed in order to take care of her finances and her child. A POA generally has a time frame attached to it and can be very specific in what you’re allowed to do on behalf of the other person. The other person does not need to be incapacitated. The DPOA means it stays in effect until the person reassigns it, no expiration. They can be very specific as well, so you’ll want yours to cover medical and financials . I agree with others do not split responsibility. It is easiest for the caretaker to have it. I basically am my mother’s caretaker but she became very distrustful of me so she made my sister DPOA. We live within an hour of each other and so it works. If I need to get something done I’ll call her and tell her what is needed and we get ‘er dun.

Quilting brings calm

My mom’s POA form has spots to indicate when it became effective, and how long it is in effect. In other words, she could ( if she wanted) say that it was only in effect until she became incapacitated. That’s not the box we checked. We checked the boxes that said effective immediately, and in effect until death or revoked. Therefore it is a durable power of attorney. I could begin acting on her behalf immediately. She could also act on her own behalf if she wanted( she didn’t want to).

terei

The person who is in charge of the PWD should have the POAs. I also would not share this duty with anyone. Having more than one person as POA is a recipe for conflict.

Lucy C

You really want to go with the Durable Power effective immediately if possible. "Springing" POA's are designed to protect the "principal" from premature attempts by the person appointed as POA to usurp authority and/or financial control, but they can create serious difficulties if an uncooperative parent then refuses to be evaluated when the time comes. (And usually, by the time the person needs a capacity evaluation, they don't have the "capacity" to be helpful about it.)

If you anticipate transferring the POA at some point, ask the attorney to create a POA in which both you and your brother are appointed, but only one can serve at a time, and in the order nominated. That is, if you are nominated as serving first, your brother cannot serve until or unless you resign from serving. If you were to divide the time between you, then matters become more complicated.

harshedbuzz

@Merla

Getting medical records transferred might be best done by her new doctor. When I moved my parents back to PA in 2016, I faxed requests to their docs in FL, DE and MD. [[crickets]]. Their most recent PCP (who saw them each once) in FL sent them— none of their other 14 doctors did. I got them in with a physician at the practice I use who made referrals to the necessary specialists mostly within the same university medical system. The PCP and specialists reached out to the previous doctors as needed for records and generally got what was needed. Were I doing it today, I would set up a PCP who uses EPIC and attempt to merge records from her previous team assuming they also use EPIC.

Once you have the POA, it is a good idea to present it to banks and investment firms for vetting as this can take 2-3 weeks IME. They'll make a copy of the original. A few places will insist on their own form. The SSA doesn't honor POAs but requires you to become a representative payee.

When I sold my parents' houses, the title company required the originals be sent to the courthouse to record the deed. It was sent back within the month; you'll want to make sure you won't be needing the original for that time when you won't have it available to you.

HB

M1

I have not yet sold property, but have sent electronic copies of the POA documents to multiple entities including hospitals, financial institutions, and memory care. Some investment companies require that you sign their own proprietary form and won’t accept a general DPOA, be sure to check about that if your mother has accounts that you will need to access. Very handy to scan these into my computer and then can be sent by email. No one has yet asked for the original.

H1235

My moms DPOA was effective right away. The lawyer decided if mom was competent to sign, not a doctor. The lawyer explained everything and decided if mom had a good understanding of what she was doing. The doctor was not involved in any way! I am confused at why a doctor would sign.

M1

uh oh. It sounds like what you have is a “springing” POA which is not what you want….you want durable which is effective immediately.

psg712

Durable should not require anyone's attestation to incapacity. You can take action immediately and unilaterally with the DPOA document.

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/223343#Comment_223343

In addition to keeping a copy on hand at all times: if LO is in a provider network that uses MyChart or other medical records management software, you should be able to have your POA/DPOA docs uploaded there, along with Living Will; DNR; etc.

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/223760#Comment_223760

The doctor doesn't sign the actual DPOA document; the DPOA document sets the foundation for its need and scope. A doctor would write a Letter of Incapacity, which would then justify the use of the DPOA.

In my case, my mother had DPOA drafted before we knew that we'd need it. The law firm drafted only a DPOA that also works immediately like a POA, but then also is effective if/when the person becomes incapacitated.

Healthcare and other providers (Medicaid, Insurance companies, etc.) might have their own Authorized Representative form that they want you to fill out. But, the DPOA should accompany it to validate that form when you (rather than your incapacitated LO) has filled in out and signed it on behalf of the LO. [There is a specific way that you sign as a POA agent. Ref: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/how-to-sign-a-power-of-attorney-document-for-someone

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/223770#Comment_223770

In my mother's case, I asked her best friend of 50+ years to accompany her to the law firm office to make her feel more comfortable about what was discussed and to be a witness to my mother agreeing to the documents. As opposed to me, since I was being named the DPOA agent. I felt better having a neutral party there. Especially because a PWD (certainly my mother) can lapse so easily into that suspicious/conspiracy phase.

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/70684/best-practices-for-poa

Definitely don't count on redoing any POA. Your LO could later be deemed incapacitated to make that decision and then you are stuck with the existing decision or a possible validation of the original.

WARNING: Do NOT rely upon POA/DPOA. Turns out that it in practice it serves as more a "suggestion", whether appropriate or not. Who knew! Banks (e.g.. BoA) often will ignore the financial one and apparently [just learning] health providers won't necessarily honor the medical one, wherein you are the patient via legal Healthcare Surrogate directive. Your only recourse then becomes hiring an attorney and spending thousands to argue why those documents should be honored.

Bank, for example: Best is to be added to the accounts as a co-owner (joint account), if your LO is willing, while they are deemed to be able to make that decision. (This was BoA's advice to us. Although, they often anecdotally acknowledge also that I am the DPOA.)

Ci2Ci

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/223721#Comment_223721

"When I sold my parents' houses, the title company required the originals be sent to the courthouse to record the deed."

Oh, lawdy, releasing the originals from my possession would terrify me! I even wish that I had asked the law firm to have multiple originals signed (as backup) and even additional photocopies stamped "certified" or such.

H1235

You will still need the DPOA if you can not talk her into AL and to make decisions about care.

M1

this doesn’t make sense Merla. If worded correctly, POA gives you authority to both make the care decisions and control the finances in her behalf, because she is not capable of doing either. Either you’re misunderstanding, or you’re not getting the correct legal advice?

H1235

I agree the DPOA should give you the right to do almost anything that she can do. I’m not sure why money in a trust would cause a problem if she has access to it you should as well through the DPOA. Will she be hit with big fees if money is taken out of the trust? Did the lawyer tell you you can’t access money in the trust to pay for her care?