New guy
I find her condition worsens after sundown. It’s positive that her usual couple glasses of wine don’t help! If she goes into one of her wormholes, we often degenerate into shouting arguments.
Anyway, I ramble! Have any of you found effective ways to tone down the emotional level?
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I started by watering down the liquor. She has never noticed. In fact, yesterday she told me one of the good things about having Alz is that she doesn't get tipsy anymore. LOL followed by sigh. It helped the nightly fights so much.
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The best advice I've gotten is to not argue. You speak calmly, even when she raises her voice. Don't correct her. Don't try to reason with her. Simply nod to let her know you hear her or say something like "I see what you mean", and she'll probably think you agree with her and calm down because there is nothing to argue about. Plus, watering down the wine is a good idea.
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Very good advice not to argue. You will never win. It's hard to understand , but , it's their way of thinking. I like the watering down the idea except the wine usually causes my DW to go to bed early and give me some me time.
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I agree with cavenson and others. The best advice I've gotten is to not argue. You speak calmly, even when she raises her voice. Don't correct her. Don't try to reason with her. Simply nod to let her know you hear her or say something like "I see what you mean", and she'll probably think you agree with her and calm down because there is nothing to argue about. Plus, watering down the wine is a good idea.
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Thanks for your helpful comments. I’ll give it my best shot!
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Welcome to this wonderful forum full of support for whatever you’re facing.
It’s great advice about not arguing but I have had such a hard time adhering to it. I don’t know why I keep going down that rabbit hole because it’s true that it NEVER ends well. Some days I just want to kick myself but I keep trying…3 -
Yeah for sure. St Paul wondered why he did all the things he knew he shouldn’t and didn’t do the things he knew he should. Me too!!
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And my kids reminded me: they make non-alcoholic wine!! Duh!
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I'm sorry you need this forum but "welcome".
Like the others have said, don't argue, don't disagree, try not to be defensive and try to not show any negative emotion. Don't take anything she says personally, she is not the same person she was and reasoning with her will be unproductive.
My DW responds well to a steady agreeable tone of voice and a bit of humor.
Can't help with the wine thing as my DW has never used alcohol but I do know that denying things that they ask for is a problem.
It's hard and you'll make mistakes but don't beat yourself up, just do the best you can.
,n
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When you find a response that works, keep using it. Normally if someone asks the same question multiple times we try different responses to try to clear things up. But with dementia it's not the same. Once you find an answer that works, use it again and again.
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Interesting advice - I think that’s a great idea. I do tend to change my response sometimes unnecessarily.
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I have found that wine does suppress the manic sun downing behavior. I doubt it is a sanctioned treatment but for me (5 years in) it is a survival tactic. She is not on any anti anxiety meds so I am not worried about interactions. I control the portions and it gets us through dinner after which she goes to bed.
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Hi rev,
Welcome to the forum. Im glad you found your way here, but sorry you had to find us. My experience is much the same as lenbury in that the alcohol definitely helps with the anxiety of sundowning. I experimented with not buying it anymore but it seemed to escalate the anxiety and so it’s really the lesser of two evils for us. If we’re not “getting along” it’ll exacerbate that situation often, but when we are getting along then it really calms her down. There is so much angst and loss in their lives, why try to take away this one pleasure? And taking it away causes discord. That’s where I’ve gotten to.
Keep us posted!Karen
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read the book “The 36 Hour Day” which helped me after my husbands diagnosis. Learn all you can about the disease and caregiving. Search for Tam Cummings videos on YouTube. The best advice this forum gave me was “ you can’t reason with someone whose ‘reasoner’ is broken” so don’t try. Don’t argue or try to correct. Stay calm. Come here often for info and support.
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Hello, @rev, and welcome to the forum. Sundowning is a very confusing thing. My grandmother loves her evening Prosecco (which by all means doesn't help her by any means), but even when she doesn't drink it's still bad. As others have already said, try not to argue—I know it's very frustrating, but remember that she is more frustrated/confused than you and she can't help it. I also strongly agree with @sandwichone123. If your wife is still able to hold a conversation at night and there is a stark difference between her behavior in the morning and in the night, she is most likely in stage 4 and mostly struggling with her short-term memory (correct me if I'm wrong). Whenever my grandmother would loop in a conversation or forget who someone was multiple times, I would use the exact same phrasing as I had the first time, to 1) confuse her less, as @sandwichone123 said, 2) hope it triggers something in her head about the conversation we'd just had so she remembers it, and 3) make me less frustrated so I can care for her better. If you need anything else, this is an amazing place to come for help.
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I’ve attached some links that might be helpful.
This is a staging tool. It may help you with where she is at.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6372d16ea4e02c7ce64425b7/t/63f7b80d80d8aa3e3aa4a47d/1677178894184/DBAT.pdf
This just lays it all out there. I found it very helpful.https://alzconnected.org/discussion/67950/article-understanding-the-dementia-experience#latest
These are tough to follow. It takes time to realize you just have to agree with your loved one and then do what is best for them without them realizing it. Your approach can make a world of difference.
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Hello, and welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of support and information here. Your wife's condition worsening after sundown is known as sundowning and is very common with dementia. As others have said, don't argue, try to reason, or correct. You will need to "try to live in her world." Yesterday, my DH (who is in MC), told me "It is about to start." I nodded and said "Okay, let's wait for it." When he asked when it would start, I told him that no one had told me so I didn't know. Next I suggested that we watch TV while we waited. I had no idea what he was talking about but we still had a nice visit. Sometimes you can determine the emotion underneath what they are saying. If so, try to respond to the emotion and not to what they are saying. When my DH says something like, "When are they coming!?" I might respond with, " I'm sorry your worried about it. I'll see if I can find out." Not a great example but maybe you can see what I mean. They respond to our reactions so if we're tense, they can tell. Try to stay calm and positive and speak softly and kindly to her. Come here to vent and ask for help and support. We are here for you.
Brenda
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many thanks! Everyone has been so helpful and supportive! I feel better already.
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Boy have I been failing on the absolutes! So grateful!
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Thank you so much for sharing the 10 Absolutes. I made a copy and put it next to my computer, and the first thing I do most mornings is to turn on my computer. The sheet is folded and placed where I'll see it every morning, but DH won't see it. It will be a great reminder as I start each day.
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I am glad that you found this forum but sad that you have to be here. DH and I used to enjoy wine o'clock and used that as a time dedicated to conversation. Over time he started becoming more verbally combative. I stated becoming too busy to sit down and talk with him. Had I thought about diluting the wine I would have done so. He drinks less now because I am the only one who drives and sometimes I "forget" to pick up a bottle.
The arguing thing…you just can't. With my DH I cannot depend on his ablity to reason. Sometimes he can and sometimes he can't. In the long run, what does it matter if he says outlandish things? If I point out a counter-argument, he is hurt and shamed. It is too confusing to try to figure out if this is a time/day when the light bulb is working or if it is flickering to off again. Sad to say, I've had to shut down a lot of my emotions in order to keep the peace.
This is a long journey, save your energy so that you can stay the course with the woman you loved enough to marry. She is still in there.
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@H1235 This is so helpful!
Been trying to find an accurate staging tool so I can prepare as best I can for what's likely coming next, but all the sites I've researched are slightly different (even when I've checked that they're all American and from the last 10 years). Even some FAST scale charts I've cross-referenced vary. Thank you!
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Hi New guy, my LO is also newly diagnosed . After I learned from this amazing support site the different meanings of the numbers 1-8 I’m more comfortable identifying the actions of my loved one. My LO also is beginning sundown and decides his nightly cocktail is earlier and earlier. This comes after he has had a few beers throughout the day which he doesn’t remember having 😝the point is any alcohol make his thinking and understanding worse. I’m trying to stop the drinking all together but that really makes him angry , I can still put my foot down and say no but it always causes an argument. Point is, alcohol is bad for this disease. We all hang in, love and light, Sandi
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Thanks Sandi and sorry for your struggles too. I’m going to try non-alcoholic wine. There are non-alcoholic beers too!
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I tried replacing his wine with a nonalcoholic version and his response was that it was the worst wine he had ever tasted. So, apparently his brain is not functioning but his taste buds are working just fine.
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You may want to look up Sun Downing, a time when things sometimes worsen.
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@Marchbanks
My dad had an alcohol-related dementia so we were told he should have no alcohol at all. We tried the usual tricks— non-alcoholic wine, sparkling juice, NA beers, etc. It was a big-fat-failure. His brain was diseased, not his palate.
At the end of the day, he also had Alzheimer's, which was progressing, and it wasn't safe or fair for my mom to be the alcohol-police, so he drank.
We did take dad to a geripsych for his anxiety driven aggression which resulted in him getting Wellbutrin added to his SSRI and atypical antipsychotic. The Wellbutrin was meant to "activate" him but seemed to quell his need for alcohol.
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We gave my dw with ad non alcoholic wine for years. They still stock it at the club we belong to. But she no longer likes the taste of regular wine or any alcholo.
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They originally thought my DH had alcohol related dementia but his blood work came back fine. Kind of amazing considering the amount he was drinking. He has been on generic Seroquel for a month and it has curbed his cravings somewhat. He also overeats and was just diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes so he starts Ozempic this week. I’m hoping it helps him lose interest completely. Doubtful but hopeful. He drank coffee nearly every day of his life but all of a sudden he can’t stand it. I’m hoping he will forget that he likes alcohol as well.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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