The state investigated last week's incident and says my DH has to move...help
In my last post I told how DH had groped a female resident at his MC. Now the state has stepped in and says he can no longer stay there. The social said she told them they were willing to keep him and wanted to keep him but the state is adament. When I asked her how long we had to find another facility, she said she was calling places now and he had to leave as soon as she found a facility that will accept him. Right now he is only ten miles away. The only place here in town is basically a locked ward and not a MC. She said there is a place two hours away that might take him. His Dr. said there is also a place about seventy five miles away but it is right downtown Kansas City. I would dread trying to drive in the city. Those are the facts of the matter. Now the emotion. I am blindsided and crying and feel very broken right now. How much more can happen? My feelings are all jumbled up and yet I know I need to continue to function and try to do whatever I can to help him. How to proceed? Is there no one to appeal this to? Maybe the state is right and he does need to move. Questions but no answers. Alzehimer's has turned my husband into a stranger.
Brenda
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I’m so sorry Brenda. I cannot imagine your pain in dealing with all of this. I don’t have any answers except to be here as someone who cares and can read your posts. You have not had it easy. I hope someone may have an idea. Have you tried calling the Alz hotline?
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@White Crane
I am so, so sorry you are now dealing with this in the context of how upset you alreay were.
I'm curious. I have heard countless times of a facility giving a resident the boot because they can't or don't want to manage behaviors. But never have I ever heard of the state decreeing this. Did the state inform you of this or is this something you've been told by the facility.
I mean, presumably you would be moving him within the state and presumably, without a geripsych stay, he might do this again to another resident. It smacks of transferring the "trouble teacher or priest" to another town.
I really bristle at the "first available" placement. When a person is struggling, they need their facility chosen with more care not less. Would it be possible to insist on a geripsych stay and transfer from there with the social worker from the psych unit helping you?
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HB, Thank you for responding. The state has not called me. The social worker at the MC called and told me. She called again just now and said the state wants him to be seen by a counseling group that will come to his MC and needed my permission. I gave permission but it didn't occur to me to request he be sent to a geripsych unit. We live in Missouri. I told her I was going to call the state ombudsman and also asked her to find two facilities if possible so I could choose. I don't know what else to do.
Brenda
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If due to the disease he acts out this way how does the state think this will help. It would be better for him to stay where he is where the staff know him and are willing to work with you and get the needed medications. My wife thought I was having an affair when she was home. When she moved to MC her thoughts didn't change just the person she thought I was cheating with changed to one of the residents of the MC. I don't have any ideas or answers but the state makes no since. Ask how you can appeal. I am praying for you.
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thank you, Trotting Along and BPS.
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I’m so sorry, what an absolute nightmare for you. Would your CELA or attorney be able to help or shed light. I thought the state was mandated to give you 30 days advance notice. Thinking of you and wishing we could help.
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Oof. Sending you a big hug. You will make it through this.
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I’ve heard of facilities asking someone to leave, but not the state. How strange. It’s a good idea to talk to your state ombudsperson.
You’d typically receive something in writing that would stipulate a deadline (at least 30 days); that deadline could ordinarily be appealed to, say, 60 or 90 days.
Like others, I’m not seeing how it makes sense to move your husband to a different facility rather than trying to help him in the place where he is. This is not an unheard-of behavior for a PWD; managing behaviors is meant to be what memory care facilities are equipped to do.
I am so sorry for you. This is such a painful situation.
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He needs medication management at a geriatric psychiatric unit supervised by a geriatric psychiatrist.
Ask what type of "counseling" is bring considered from the counseling group. PWD cannot have "counseling" because they lack self-awareness.
Iris
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The thought that the move is being taken by the facility, NOT the state, was my primary thought. If I were @WhiteCrane, I would request to see all communications the state has had with the facility about my hubby.
The SW at the facility telling you about the "state-mandated" need for relocation, AND tasked with finding a replacement facility, seems suspect. The facility knows that legally they can not "abandon their patient" but they also recognize the liability his future actions could cost them if left unaddressed. It is easier for them to displace him.
All the best! This is a terrible situation all around and so damaging to your psyche.🙏🏽
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Dear Brenda- I’m so sorry to hear you are dealing with this on top of everything else. Completely unfair. Good ideas re Geri-psych and ombudsperson. Also, I agree “the state” should be required to issue something in writing to you or MC and you should have a right to see it. Right now you’re having to rely on information being passed from one person to another etc. and then to you. Is it possible the family of the woman he was bothering complained directly to the State. Is there any chance to appeal to them directly? Involving a lawyer or other advocate makes sense- this is such a charged situation. You need more information. I really hope you can get some support in navigating your way through this. Sending hugs! Keep us posted!
💜
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So sorry you have to go through this awful experience. I agree with the above comments that the facility may not be on the level with you. It seems likely the victim’s family is pursuing either legal charges through the state or planning to sue the facility. Having your DH temporarily removed from the situation to a Geri-Psych hospital offers several possible solutions for you. It gives you time to get reliable information on whether the state or the facility is pushing for the move; it gives doctors time to find a medical solution to prevent future incidents; it provides time for you to find out what your legal rights are; and it creates breathing room to negotiate a more sensible accommodation that protects the rights of both the victim and your DH (whose behavior should be made more manageable through Geri-Psych evaluation and treatment). Best wishes for a successful recovery and reasonable outcome in closer proximity to your home.
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I'm so sorry you're in this heartbreaking situation. I think you should check with an elder law attorney. I know when I was looking to place my husband, she had a list of places that she recommended. You also need legal advice as to what your next step should be. For instance, the counseling may not be a good idea.
All my best wishes for a positive outcome!
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What a miserable dilemma! You really don't need this kind of additional stress.
I agree that it sounds like the MCF is fearful of legal action from the victim's family. Otherwise I would expect the MCF to do what's necessary to keep a patient. I think you need to find out what's really going on. Meanwhile, I think @Bridge4 offers a good course of action. Good luck.
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I don't understand why the State is involved in this. I wonder who notified them and why. Almost the same thing happened where my sister was and the facility dealt with itm. I'm sorry this is happening to.both of you. I would find out who got the State involved and why. A move to another facility would be harmful to your husband and to you.
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I hired a geriatric care manager when things started going sideways with my DH's care. She was expensive, but not as much as an attorney. And she was able to jump right in, same day, to help. Her company is well-regarded, and they know everybody: MC facilities, geri-psych units, state laws, hospice info, all of it. She was invaluable in navigating all of his issues and options available. She was able to escalate within his MC unit above everybody that I knew there, right to corporate for resolution. I don't live in Missouri, but in googling, there are companies there. Just a thought... Good luck, my prayers are with you for a resolution that will work for you and your DH!
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I am sure the facility had to call the state on behalf of the resident who was violated, which is the right thing to do to protect her.
It seems to me that the state's and the facility's solution is to ship him out, as they cannot have a resident who was violated and a resident who committed the act in the same facility. If you can assist them in finding another place for him, that could be helpful, but with this kind of behavior it may also be that his options are more limited now, as many places will not take someone who has behavioral problems.0 -
Recently my newspaper had a list of area facilities that were fined by the state. Other than incidents where a resident suffered medical issues due to staff neglect, the most frequent reason was not doing background checks on potential residents. There was even a fine for one resident being verbally abusive towards another. The ‘state’ may or may not be forcing the move, but I’m sure the facility is afraid of being fined for the groping incident. M ok st likely trying to show they’ve done their best to keep it from happening again.
I’m really sorry. Behavioral issues are not rare with dementia patients. Spouses like you deserve to have their PWD taken care of just as much as every other PWD.
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I’m so sorry this has happened. Please keep us up to date on what happens with your husband. I live in the same state as you and because of things my husband has done at home, worry that when my husband goes into a home he will also touch other residents and possibly staff. I had no idea the state might require a resident to be moved.
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I’ve never heard of a geriatric care manager. How do you search for one and what do you look for? My husband is still at home but am terrified that my husband will do inappropriate things to other residents when he is placed. I’m just trying to gather information incase I need it.
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I met with the facilities social worker, administrator, and director of nursing yesterday. There was also a woman in the room transcribing everything that was said. The administrator said they are required to report any incidents to the state. That is how they got involved. The DON told me what happened: The aides wake the residents up every two hours and take them to the bathroom to prevent incontinence. They got my husband up to the bathroom and took him back to bed and left for the next room. Apparently, he wasn't settled and got up and wandered into another room and got into bed with the other resident. She said he was there for maybe five to ten minutes before they noticed it. No one was monitoring the hall during this time. She said he was not beligerant and was easily taken back to his room. They checked the woman and she was calm and not traumatized or harmed in any way according to the aides. When I questioned her about why there was no one monitoring the hall, the DON got defensive.
It turns out that the woman from DHSS who was investigating the incident had called me on Tuesday but I didn't realize what she was doing. She lied to me. She called and said she was doing an inspection of the facility and was surveying families. She said my husband was chosen at random to have his family surveyed. She then asked me what my thoughts were about the facility. I thought this was a routine call so I gave the facility a good rating. I am angry that she lied to me.
The woman from DHSS has listed the incident as the highest level of harm and says that the woman was harmed even though the facility says she wasn't. The state is supposed to send me something in writing and then there will be 30 days to set up new arrangements. There is an appeals process.
The administrator said she has sent a report to DHSS trying to get the incident lowered to a lower level and told them they want to keep my husband at their facility. The doctor has changed his medication and hopefully that will tamp down anymore sexual behavior.
I placed calls to the regional and state ombudsman but they have not returned my calls. I called the woman from DHSS and she has not returned my call yet either. This morning I am going to call my elder care lawyer and see what to do next. This is a nightmare! Meanwhile, they have an aide with my husband 24/7. When I visited him yesterday, he was in his room and confused. The aide was sitting in a chair and looking at his phone. The TV was on but so low DH couldn't hear it. He looked at me and said, "I can't hear it. I think something's wrong! " His eyes looked sad and kind of scared. I got the aide to turn up the volume. He said at first it wouldn't get any louder but he found the right button and turned it up. I don't know wht is going to happen but am praying for a good outcome for us and for the other resident.
Brenda
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Getting them.up every two.hours at night? Sounds like that is detrimental to their health by disrupting sleep and rest..Never heard of that being done before.
In my sister's case, a man would come into her room and try to get in bed with her. The aide would come and get.him back to.his room. It continued and finally they decided to.lock her door.. Nothing ever came of it. Your husband was awakened from sleep, taken to the bathroom in the middle of the night so he was confused. Hang in there - this move they're contemplating is wrong. Did you get the name of the DHSS worker who called and lied to you
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Thank you, Lorita. I got the first name of the DHSS worker. The ombudsman did call me back later this morning and she is looking into it. She was surprised about the getting people up every two hours for the bathroom.
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I agree with the concern that all is not straight forward here.
I urge you to document all conversations fro now going forward since verbal conversations become a matter of he said/she said. Please start emailing and do get a copy of what was transcribed at the meeting.
At this point please write down everything that was said, by whom and the date. This is v ery important!
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Thank you jfkoc, My son said the same thing about documenting all conversations. I will start doing that.
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I went through the website that certifies geriatric care managers, which is now called the Aging Life Care Association. You can search on that site for companies/people close to you. I called a few and narrowed it down based on the conversations I had. I ended up retaining one for years, she checked in on us monthly. But by keeping her on retainer, I had access to somebody 24x7 from her company if she wasn't on call. This came in handy on more than one occasion, and I was very grateful to have her expertise. She also became the middle-man and witness to my conversations when I had issues with my husband's Rehab and MC facilities. It was amazing to see how their demeanor changed when I told them I was bringing her into the meetings.
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Brenda, your thinking is good, you’re asking questions and considering your options. I totally agree with documentation, can you purchase a small “tape recorder”. You should be able to record if you say that you are going to record the conversation. Thoughts and prayers that this settles down.
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Thank you. I have a feeling I might need them after reading what White Crane is going through.
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"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help" and other fantasies ….
Getting people up every 2 hours to avoid a morning clean up - would the Geneva conventions even allow that — brilliant - sleep dep is so good for everyone , especially PWD [not].Your lawyer should be able to talk to the state or county attorney about WHY your husband is being told to leave a place that accepts him . He's not a staff member - he isn't in control of his behaviors-moving him will require a period of adjustment that could be harmful.
There is a growth industry of stupid going on right now. In California they mandated an annual long form from the Doctor and a lab test or chest xray every year to see if people in a residential home are at the "right level"- which sounds nice but how are these folks going to be transported to the doctor , if they can't stand for an xray etc [a TB check]. And who gets "better" in memory care?It really impacts the small places with 5-6 residents and maybe 2 staffers .A good one is homelike and can be less expensive. Unless the government wants to get them closed so larger corporate interests can build huge for profit places staffed with union workers. That can't happen …can it?
Sounds like getting a tough case manager or an attorney involved or at least consulted would be the right next. step. There is too much CYA here— the home doesn't want the eviction on their record, the APS person may not be trained or understanding - a patient who does something that could get an EMPLOYEE fired is very different from a sleep deprived PWD who was dragged out of a warm bed in the middle of the night and ordered to urinate. I'd look for a warm bed after that too.
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Brenda, I am so sorry to read of all you are going through. I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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