Revoking DPOA
My HWD has suddenly remembered going to 'my lawyer' and signing a bunch of papers that he didn't understand. Now he thinks that the atty and I are trying to steal his money and he wants to have the 'paperwork' voided and be in charge of it himself. His PCP is switching him from quetiapine to rexulti and he has become even more paranoid about his finances. He was so mean and agressive last night that I grabbed my dog and spent the night at a motel. I called 911 immediately when I was in a safe place, and the sheriff's dept sent several deputies to the house for a welfare check. HWD didn't answer the door, so one of the officers called me and wanted me to leave the motel and drive back to the house to give them permission to enter. I understand, but declined, and they just left him there alone. He didn't even notice that I was gone and was asleep when I came home in the morning, but the house was a wreck. Anyway…I have just had it and am thinking about resigning as the principal agent on his DPOA , which would mean that I would have no access to his finances or health records, and his doctors could not share information with me, also I could not place him in a MC facility. He has anosognosia, NPD and extreme paranoia, and I think at this point, I would have to file for divorce even though it would be brutal and expensive. I can't be his sole caregiver without DPOA. Of course, he is moving anyway, as soon as he can get his van started. I'm just so tired, that I can't deal with him anymore.
Comments
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At this point it would be a big mistake to even consider removing yourself because his brain is broken. I would contact the attorney just for them to be aware in case he would contact them. Have you tried lying and telling him you do not have DPOA. I’m so sorry you are going through this.
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When he is acting up that is the time to call 911 and have him taken to a hospital with a geriatric psych unit to have his meds adjusted. Then he would be easier to place . Not that he would agree easier but the facilities would be more comfortable taking him.
Having the police come to your house and not working with them by allowing access to him to see if they can get him transported for care puts them in an impossible situation. And now you are documented as leaving a person you felt was at risk but then left him alone.
Check with the attorney if you can get the van removed/sold to eliminate that risk. The attorney can probably recommend a professional conservator who can help you get him placed if you aren't up to researching places etc.Just focus on his safety and your safety at the easiest least expensive cost. Throwing divorce lawyer costs in the mix doesn't help with safety- if he is placed you'd be separated anyway and your financial situation probably better long term. The lawyer or your CPA can run those numbers.
Sorry you are having to go through this , the disease is awful.
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If he has an official dementia diagnosis, he can't revoke the existing DPOA because he is not of sound/ sensible mind, and his physician will have to attest to that. I'd recommend informing the attorney of the situation and seek his/her counsel. I don't blame you for believing divorce would absolve you of the current situation or responsibility…it doesn't, not really. I suppose in a not-so-perfect marriage, one might regret not divorcing the person when the chance was there. Anyhow, that's another story. Hope you find a good solution to keep both of you safe.
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Pointing out the obvious, that has already been done, and showcasing it in a very negative manner doesn’t help a scared and very tired carer. With a DH that is continually paranoid, with medication that is either not helping or making things worse in the middle of the night I would also make a run for it, for my safety. We should be more understanding and kinder on this site. I agree with Trottingalong if possible fabricate the truth, lie, make up stories like “we’ll do that tomorrow “ etc but when help is needed and called for here we should give it. Ask the question has he had his meds adjusted, have you called the Phsyc nurse, have you checked with the Atty and question how violent will he be if his van is gone.
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And aren't you just the epitome of kind gentleness "Biggles". Like how you complied with :
And:
"AI Overview No, it is not considered polite to "ream out" or harshly scold others in a support group.Support groups rely on psychological safety, mutual respect, and empathy to help members heal and share vulnerably."
My post focused on actions that may help get the OP through her difficult time from my perspective. You chose to criticize me and my advise from a personal perspective.Why didn't you post directly to the OP instead of attacking me ?
Why not go through my suggestions one by one and say " or try this " " and maybe try this" . Considering how my post referred the OP to getting outside expert help and that you very much disagreed with my approach I look forward to what you would advise.
Example to get you started : describe what the flaw is in my sentence:"Check with the attorney if you can get the van removed/sold to eliminate that risk. The attorney can probably recommend a professional conservator who can help you get him placed if you aren't up to researching places etc. "
Getting legal help and seeking a professional expert on placement advise is apparently wrong -so what's "right"?
Look forward to your positive suggestions .
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Yikes! I would withdraw my post if I could…
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@Bailey's Mom
I am so sorry you're going through this. My mom was in a similar position with my dad. It got worse after he was initially diagnosed and she moved them both back near me and the doctors who were sorting out which dementias he actually had.
Ideally, what @Victoriaredux suggested as best practice is in a situation like yours. Getting DH turfed to a geripsych admission where medication can be trialed and stabilized while keeping you both safe would be best. Unfortunately, this strategy relies on police who are sufficiently trained in behavioral health response and an ED team that recognizes the issue and has an appropriate transfer available to them. Mom's local ED failed them miserably (quick discharge with only the name of a general practice neurologist who was scheduling 6 months out).
Next time, make a recording of his behavior. If video is unsafe, then just get the audio of the threats and accusations so the responding officers understand the risk if your DH is one who showtimes.
Regarding going forward, this is a discussion to have with an elder law attorney. My parents didn't have DPOAs when dad was diagnosed, so I took mom to one near me. While we did discuss POAs and Medicaid planning, we also discussed divorce in the context of dad's dementia. There marriage was not always a good or happy one and the previous 10 years during which dementia was increasingly a factor were some of the worst.
It would have been a costly option; a 50/50 split, she'd be responsible for his Medicare supplement, not only would both need lawyers, but dad would also need a guardian ad litem during the proceedings, and she'd lose all input into decisions made on his behalf. Guardianship would likely have gone to me; dad and I never had a good relationship, and she didn't trust me to not retaliate. We ran the numbers. Mom took a gamble, she felt she'd be better off financially if she were able to remain married and keep him at home, with effective medication to dampen his aggression, as long as she could. If there had been fewer assets in play with the rules of Medicaid in play to cover his care, she might have elected to divorce.
One thing mom's attorney suggested was that if dad didn't agree to the DPOA, it's the lawyers call regarding capacity to sign and a different one might believe him OK to understand what he's doing, go for guardianship. It's more money but gives you relief from his threats.
I hope you can get meds sorted out. They can make a huge difference. For dad, they calmed him down enough that he was able to respond to non-drug strategies like validation to keep him calm and feeling understood. FWIW, this middle stage was the hardest on our family. As dad progressed to late stage, things got easier in many respects.
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In the heat of the moment it can be hard to think clearly and make the “right” decisions. It can be hard anyway. Going from caring for him in your home to divorce and done kind of seems like a big jump. A facility seems like it might be a bit of a compromise. Do you think you could manage if he were in a facility? Do you have a letter signed by two doctors declaring him incompetent to make his own decisions. This might come in handy. I asked moms doctor for this through a patient portal and she sent me a copy fairly quickly. Maybe come up with a plan for his next outburst. It might help you mentally to know, this is what I need to do. I imagine part or that plan would involve calling 911. Hopefully he would be taken to the hospital. Come up with a plan for the hospital as well. Show them the video you took, the letter of incompetence, ask to see a case worker, absolutely refuse to take him home! (Things to consider). I hope you can find a solution. Stay safe.
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@Bailey's Mom I’m so sorry you’re feeling like withdrawing your post. You came to a site that should be free of drama, where it’s “safe” to ask questions, provide helpful advice, or even just to vent. I can’t imagine how I would have handled that situation, I haven’t been in your place and wasn’t there. We all do he best we can in any situation. Upon reflection sometimes I discover I would have handled thing in a different manner, sometimes not.
All I can offer is a hug 💜
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BAILY'S MOM…
People honestly do post what they think is helpful. I would. go back and read through the posts for what may be helpful in your situation.
My suggestion is that you get your husband under the care of a neurologist who specializes in dementia. That Dr may well turn over drug control to a psychiatrist.
If you legally resign as DPOA is there someone next in line?
Dr's can continue to discuss medical issues if there is a HIPAA in place.
If you thin placement is going to be needed now is the time to pick one out. We can share the steps for doing that.
Meanwhile take a deep breath and keep in mind this is a rough road. Accept all help.
We care and are here for you!!!
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Thank you for all of your posts…very helpful. I am the principal agent on his DPOA, and our lawyer is the successor. He has not been declared legally incompetent, but it would not be difficult to do so, since his doctors have all pressured me to place him in a MC facility. He could not revoke the DPOA in his condition, but I could resign as his principal and then the lawyer would be in charge. If she resigned, then nobody would be able to access his finances (he is unable to) or handle his healthcare decisions (he is also unable to)…he would then need a court appointed guardian. I have been taking steps to be ready to place him when it is necessary, which I fear will be soon. I have chosen a MC facility and have been working with them to have everything in place. His PCP will sign the required paperwork immediately and he could be placed in only a few days. His VA psychiatrist doubled his dose of quetiapine a few months ago, and he had a severe adverse reaction to it…the VA psychiatrist was awol and after a fall, and two trips to the ER (they don't have a psyche unit and refused to admit him) I went back to his medicare PCP and he changed his antipsychotic to Rexulti…so far, it has not worked and the PCP thinks that his NPD is so strong that it overrides his antipsychotics. I am trying to wait a few more weeks to see if it will work, but don't have high hopes. Our local police and sheriffs dept will not transport dementia patients, unless they he causes me physical harm, and the ER will just keep him for a few hrs and then release him. They have been a total failure so far. After reflection, I also think that divorce is too expensive and not a good solution. I'm not looking for a new husband…just want some relief. If he were in MC, and could be calmed down enough to not be discharged, I think I could handle him. He would hate me, but at least he would be safe…and me too.
Anyway, thank you all…esp Biggles…
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Something to ponder- can you have him placed for a "respite" period of time at the MC you've selected while the meds adjust? Do they have a visiting geri psych specialist? Can they recommend one if he won't be accepted for a respite stay.
I don't know about VA coverage but will they cover an "out of network" geri psych stay? Otherwise they would be saying " fix yourself- then come back"
That would give you a break, a chance to evaluate their care first hand and then you wouldn't have the horrible choice of you needing to be injured for the police to remove him.
I typed :"does the va cover geriatric psych stays to adjust meds for dementia" in Google and AI offered some promising sounding options. [Sent separately]The terminology from AI gives you a starting point. When a bureaucracy has a name for a program ,with digging, you can hopefully get the method on how to receive that level care.
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I have gone back in, pushed edit and wiped out the whole post when felt caught in negative vibes. Not sure if it erased all but I felt better. Sorry you are going through all this. Most of the advice is sound and helpful.
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By the way I could tell most of your first message was frustration and fear. Sometimes we just need to vent.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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