The state investigated last week's incident and says my DH has to move...help

cdgbdr · August 10

Brenda, I feel for you. I am placing DH soon and fear these things

harshedbuzz · August 10

In California they mandated an annual long form from the Doctor and a lab test or chest xray every year to see if people in a residential home are at the "right level"- which sounds nice but how are these folks going to be transported to the doctor , if they can't stand for an xray etc [a TB check]. And who gets "better" in memory care?

Most facilities have mobile radiology and phlebotomy services on-call. Chest films can be done in the patient's bed. Medical transport is used for patients who need to see a doctor outside the facility.

There are some PWD who do improve in a MCF for a time. My aunt was one. She'd previously been living alone with no help. She positively blossomed with proper nutrition, hygiene assistance, her medication as prescribed and social interaction.

HB

PS I totally agree about the 2-hour toileting schedule. If ever there was a group who needed good restorative sleep, it would be those in MC.

easy23 · August 10

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/250196#Comment_250196

I slept over at my DH's MC a few nights last month. The aides came into the room every two hours, turned on the ceiling light and yelled out "are you wet?"

harshedbuzz · August 10

@easy23

Ugh. Dad's MCF did well checks every 2 hours, but they used a flashlight when checking.

Lorita · August 11

I can see the wellness checks but awakening the patients is uncalled for. Easy 23, yelling like that in the middle of the night could frighten anyone much less a person with dementia who could startle easily. I would have a good talk with the Administrator.

Leesee · August 11

My DH is at his worst when he first wakes up. Whether he's getting up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, or first thing in the morning, he's always delusional.

The only time I witnessed him having a hallucination, was when he woke up to use the bathroom. I happened to be awake and he told me he couldn't use the bathroom because there was a 'little girl' in there. I went with him and looked into the bathroom and he asked me if I could see the little girl. I said no, and I walked into the bathroom and came back out and told him she was gone and he could use the bathroom.

Many mornings start with delusional stories. Just this past weekend, he cried while telling me a completely delusional story. Once he's awake for a few minutes, it passes.

I don't know if this is common with dementia patients; if it is, the MC needs to watch for behavior issues when waking up patients every 2 hours.

Karen711 · August 12

Sounds like you are doing what you need to do, and there’s some good advice above! You were smart to reach out to the ombudsman, but wish you could have the care manager Camp Carol mentions as well. You need support and to make it clear there are “eyes” on this! I’m so sorry you’re going through this! My thoughts and prayers are with you!

Karen

White Crane · August 12

The Ombudsman called yesterday afternoon. She was very nice but said there really wasn't anything her office could do. She had talked to the administrator at MC and also consulted with her own supervisor. She said in cases where DHSS steps in and orders an emergency discharge, she can't help. She also said that if the state does indeed order this, it usually happends quickly and I might not even have a chance to file an appeal before he is moved to anther facility. I also talked to the administrator at MC and she told me another person from DHSS was there yesterday. She showed her everything the facility is doing to monitor my husband and prevent anything from happening again. Then she told me that the state now has 10 business days to issue their decision. I called DHSS myself just now and the agent was out of the office. The secretary said she would leave a message for her to call me but it probably won't be today. Still no word from my elderlaw attorney. Also, when I talked to the administrator, I said I wanted to by a door alarm for DH door. She said no they don't want resident's doors closed at night in case they would fall. She also shot down my wanting him to be left alone at night and not woken up every two hours. She then told me she had spent some time with him yesterday and what a nice man he is and what a good voice he has…they sang some songs together. Maybe she was trying to placate me. I'm feeling so angry and sad and worried that my hands are shaking. I'm thinking about visiting the only other nearby memory care to see if they have improved since the last time I was there. This is a nightmare!

M5M · August 12

Oh, Brenda, this run-around is so stressful and ridiculous.. I think your plan to check out the other facility is a good idea. I would also call the elder attorney or find another one. A good/feisty attorney should get some action. Perhaps the attorney could summon all the parties to a round table meeting and find a solution. However you choose to handle this, know that we all support you and share your distress. Hold your head high and protect your husband's best interests.

I would also challenge the concept that DH "groped" this other resident. No one was in the room but the two residents. He had his hand on her, can they truly prove exactly where that hand was placed? Are there photographs? I could easily see him sleepily getting into the bed and lying close to the person, even with his arm around, but I would not allow the narrative to make unproven claims. At least the word "allegedly" needs to be in there.

easy23 · August 12

I agree that you should call the elder attorney again. Leave an urgent message or an e-mail. Maybe they're on vacation. If so, find someone else - fast. You need representation now.

JeriLynn66 · August 12

Brenda, I’m praying for you and DH❤️

CampCarol · August 12

I would also challenge them not monitoring the halls if they're leaving everybody's door open at night. My DH's MC locked all doors if they were not inside, day or night. Any resident could get out at any time, but not into somebody else's room!

l7pla1w2 · August 12

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/250107#Comment_250107

I think most cellphones have, or can get, a voice recorder app. No need to buy something extra.

l7pla1w2 · August 12

More about geriatric care managers. This is slightly off-topic, but important. If you are alone and need medical attention, the geriatric care manager can help you get it and can advocate for you. I realized I would need one if I didn't go into a continuing care retirement community that could provide assisted living.

weareallunique · August 12

You'll need an elder law attorney who litigates - yours maybe great on the paperwork and advise but not eager to step on toes by being aggressive - even up to filing suit. Probate court where , in my state, these things are handled is a small world — the clients , well they churn pretty quick- fellow lawyers and the govt employees stay forever , so not all elder lawyers want to duke it out .

Have you talked to a care manager— they could have practical advise abt what is realistic. Ask about the 2 hour wakey wakey too.

Also, call your state reps — DHSS is state , right? Maybe a call from them can sway the final decision before it's made . What do they expect the family to do - drop their loved one at a homeless shelter?

White Crane · August 13

This thing is getting more twisted up each day! I called the regional DHSS office this morning and talked to a lady named Amber. She had been at my DH MC on Monday and the administrator told me that the state now has 10 business days to make their decision about whether DH can stay or must be discharged. Amber said no, the state does not have the authority to order a resident to be discharged! She said that decision is totally up to the facility! That is just the opposite of what the facility is telling me. She said the state is investigating the incident and has made reccomendations for the facility to take to protect the residents. They will make a decision as to whether the facility has carried out their reccomendations or if there is more they need to do. She also said the facility will likely be given a citation because of the incident involving my DH. So the story the social worker told me about the state being adament that he be moved was not true. Or else the lady at DHSS is wrong. Amber did say she was going to talk to her regional supervisor about the situation.

I also called my state representative and told them the situation. They said they would have their laiason look into it and get back to me. I hope they do. For right now, I don't know what else to do. I have contacted the other MC near me and am going to tour the facility. They have an open bed at the moment but I really don't want to move him unless I have to. What a mess! Who do I believe?

jfkoc · August 13

Unfortunately you have been given misinformation from someone or all. You have nothing in writing so anyone can deny what they said. All you know is that someone is not telling you the truth.

Since teh facility said they would let your husband stay and the state told you they had no say in a removal then you can act relieved that he can stay.

Still…probably a good idea to tour another facility. Ask a lot of questions about staff training and state inspections. Also get a copy of the placement contract.

sandwichone123 · August 13

I want to point out the possibility that no one is lying—that the facility people don't deal with this very often and misunderstood through their own fears, that the person from the state, in mentioning ways the facility "might" deal with this was heavy-handed, etc. It does sound like a sh— show from soup to nuts, with everyone scared and trying to do their best for all involved.

BPS · August 13

Ask to see copies of reports and the law code that states whatever they are telling you. The facility may be reluctant to give you copies, but that would just be their policy and doesn't mean they are lying or covering something up. My wife fell and broke her arm and when I asked for a copy of the accident report they said they couldn't give out internal documents (there wasn't any other residents involved so it may be different). I called the state and they said there was nothing legally preventing them from giving to me and he read the report to me over the phone and asked if I wanted to file a complaint so the state would get involved. I didn't because what he read to me was the same information the facility had verbally given me. Having something in writing to back up what they are telling you can clear up a lot of issues. Write down who you talked to with the date and time as a reference.

ronda b · August 13

I worked in a NH Mc I have never seen or heard where you were to get a resident up every 2hrs. Now if they were incon they were to be checked, but not if they weren't.

Bluebird · 2:40AM

I find your situation scary. Any of our husbands or fathers could do the same thing as your husband. Your husband has dementia. I don’t feel he did anything wrong. He was woken up multiple times during the night and in his confusion ended up in the wrong bed. It is very possible that he thought the woman whose bed he ended up in was his wife. Both the state and home seem to be treating this as if your husband knew what he was doing. They don’t seem to be considering that he has dementia. The home needs to have someone monitoring the halls to prevent residents from entering the wrong room.

The state investigated last week's incident and says my DH has to move...help

Comments

I can see the wellness checks but awakening the patients is uncalled for. Easy 23, yelling like that in the middle of the night could frighten anyone much less a person with dementia who could startle easily. I would have a good talk with the Administrator.

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