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Are our 'numbers' gone?

The numbers in the headings are gone. I sincerely hope this is not permanent, as I found that feature to be very helpful. It was helpful for greeting folks new to the forum, and sympathizing with those going through a rough time who may have been here longer.

Just wondering - thanks.

«13

Answers

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    I also noticed that this morning. I agree, hope they come back.

  • SusanB-dil
    SusanB-dil Member Posts: 971
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    Wait.. 'best answer' is confusing, and 'this was answered already?' so, are we not supposed to answer anything further? I'm a bit lost, here, now.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 2,347
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    I agree. There is so much information that can be shared with someone new, but someone who’s been here a while that information.

  • ARIL
    ARIL Member Posts: 559
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    Wow, this platform just became very troublesome: “Best Answer”??? Who is deciding that? Or is an AI bot determining the purported quality of answers? Instead of offering support to each other, are we being set up to compete? This is the opposite of supportive. Or are we being told that there is no need to read beyond the Anointed Response? Also troubling.

    The whole idea of “best answer” ignores the fact of nuance: different people have different experiences, and you never know which specific examples may be most helpful for the poster.

    Or is brevity “best”? What’s the quality metric here? Grammar? I jest, but you know: it is impossible to tell.

    I too find users’ posting numbers helpful, to identify new people who would benefit from a welcome and basic information—and also to identify those users who have been involved on the site for a long time and whose level of experience is important to know.

    So, venting over, a question: What is the problem that these changes are meant to solve?

    I would hate to lose the support of this site, which has become important to me, but there are some games (like being told which answers I should most value) that I am not willing to play. Fingers crossed for some improvements.

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    edited September 5

    I can't find an announcement of the Forum changes anywhere. At the bottom of the screen the date is still 2024.

    If they want to just flip this to some AI automated box , that's the end.

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    Where do you see

    best answer' and 'this was answered already? I'm just trying to keep up.

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    Oh, never mind. I found a Best Answer. Yeah, I don't like that either. Would not be surprised if it is some AI crap.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 2,347
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    I don’t see any best answer or answered already. Where is it. I’m on an iPad. Would that format not show it?

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    I found a "Best Answer" in a post. Titled

    How do I pull my godmother out of constantly wanting to go to her childhood which no longer exists?

    Under caregiver general topics. Have not seen an "already answered" yet. I'm on a laptop so I don't know about the Ipad.

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    Wow , that is disgusting. Getting different opinions- suggestions from people is what is was so good about this Forum. We aren't looking for suggestions to fix a broken toaster.

  • ARIL
    ARIL Member Posts: 559
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    So far it appears that most changes have come in the general caregivers board, although user posting numbers have disappeared everywhere. Why would that be?

    The “best answer” thing seems to have shown up only once so far, although the notation “Answered” appears on several posts—after just one response. I don’t like this, since it implies that the thread is done—and we could already tell whether anyone had answered based on the response number provided.

    If the Alzheimer’s Association is trying out new procedures on this general board, I vote no on all of it. Do they not understand how a “support” group works? (Love the “broken toaster” comparison from @Victoriaredux!)

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    I flagged the "best answer " post as a technical issue ,hopefully a glitch and not a new approach to try to limit their oversight time of this Board.

  • GothicGremlin
    GothicGremlin Member Posts: 1,624
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    @ARIL I'm absolutely where you are. This isn't a competition. Each of our experiences are unique to us - the overall trajectory of our LOs may be similar, but no two cases of dementia are exactly the same. A best answer for one may not be the best answer for all. Not to mention that we're all here to help out others and to receive help when we need it.

    I use the numbers much the way @SusanB-dil does - I tend not to assume much experience or knowledge from someone who is new (and so I give a longer response), versus someone who's been here awhile, where I can use a little more shorthand.

    Ugh. Nothing like a little AI slop to make a miserable situation more miserable.

  • SusanB-dil
    SusanB-dil Member Posts: 971
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    edited September 5

    This new format does not feel warmth nor friendly. (Nor welcoming)

    I sent an e-mail to moderators, but haven't heard back. Maybe someone will help?

    I also had part of an answer blanked out and replaced with 'Deleted' and I have no idea why. ???

    This isn't good. at all.

  • GothicGremlin
    GothicGremlin Member Posts: 1,624
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    @SusanB-dil

    Try typing out Dick Van D*y*k*e*'s name out and watch how fast it gets deleted.

  • SusanB-dil
    SusanB-dil Member Posts: 971
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    @GothicGremlin interesting.

    This was a suggestion for a tw*id*dle m*u*f*f that a PWD can wear on the arm. I don't understand why it was replaced with the word 'deleted'. Amazon sells them, and there are knit and sewing patterns for them. We have certainly seen other 'words' that have no problems if someone is having a serious issue.

    Yeah, something is happening here...

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    Anyone have transcripts from 1960's comedians that worked "blue"? Let's post them —maybe if the little AI darlin' overheats they'll yank the plug.

    At least we aren't a tourette's support group - all they see is a billboard size "DELETED" when they log in .

  • Maru
    Maru Member Posts: 544
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    I was sent a message by ????? for Best Answer. I thought "what the heck?" Are we being graded by our answers now? What's next? Worst Answer? A grading system? Whoever is making these changes, please stop!!!

  • ARIL
    ARIL Member Posts: 559
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    @Maru Thanks for this input. You bring up a great point: Even users who are “awarded” best answer are likely to feel distress. I know I would be irritated by such a designation, and it might discourage me from involvement.

    Agreed: These changes are not helpful. Dementia care does not lend itself to the ones and zeroes of computer code. If any arena requires humanity, this one is it!

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    edited September 6

    If they dumped this change over a 3 day weekend so they could have it tested w/o having to listen to days of comments until they had a 3 day run of responses to get a feel for how the members feel is just not nice. If the other option is someone was allowed to play with the settings w/o approval that is probably worse - what else is going on - worried about privacy issues now.

    Think how , um, dented a new person would feel if they finally ,after weeks years of "lurking" make their first comment and then they see someone else get "BEST ANSWER FOR WHEN POOP GETS FLUNG " .

    "I failed at poop" hangs head…… When we all know one has days and months to master that topic in Dementia Land .

    ——————

    added- found there was a study of our posts to see if AI "better" -

    https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3709366

    final line : "Notably, AI responses showed a lack of personal narratives yet a tendency for analytical language. Furthermore, AI responses showed higher verbosity, readability, complexity, formality, and empathy but lower linguistic accommodation and diversity than OC responses. Our findings underscore the importance of considering these nuances in designing future AI-assisted tools for AD/ADRD and healthcare in general."

    I'd like to save them time & money- just don't. Humanity is people to people not a verbose chat bot. And sorry but a machine can squirt machine oil but it cannot give "empathy" . If that was true then every vending machine that ate your dollar should be in San Quentin serving life because of their lack of empathy & ethics.

  • H1235
    H1235 Member Posts: 2,347
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    The situations we discuss are so complex and complicated. The short or even longer posts are not enough information for anyone to know the best answer. Yes there are a few universals (see a lawyer, never argue) but even then there an be circumstances we are not aware of that maybe left out left out. I try to look at the problems presented here as a big brainstorming session. Sometimes one idea sparks another. If I get variations of the same answer from different people that lets me know what direction I should go. Yes, there are occasional responses that are a bit outside the norm, but we have all had different experiences. I look for ideas, I filter out anything that doesn’t make sense in my situation.

  • Maru
    Maru Member Posts: 544
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    I post here for two basic reasons:

    The first is for help. I have a problem or a new situation and really want input from other caretakers. If I wanted theoretical info there are other sources for that.

    The second reason I post is the feelings that I am feeling re: how DH is changing or maybe I am scared or fighting depression and I just need someone to tell me that it will be alright.

    I also read all the new posts to see if someone has something to say that will be useful to me, or if someone has a question and I can help them with that, or if I can lend a word of encouragement to others who are struggling.

    If all I was interested in doing was writing all these things to a machine (AI) I would not need or want a group for that, but AI is not human. PERIOD. I want PEOPLE.

    Sorry for the rant.

  • ARIL
    ARIL Member Posts: 559
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    As my cousin would say, “Preach, sister!” 😁

    The 2025 Alzconnected Community Guidelines promise humans:

    “Purpose of Community: ALZConnected® is an online community where people can come together to share questions, experiences, and receive support from others impacted by Alzheimer’s disease and other dementias. This community is intended to provide peer-to-peer support in a safe and welcoming environment where members feel connected and understood. The Association encourages participants to be a part of this growing community of strength and support.”

    I have found this to be true, owing to all of you. I do not welcome intervention by any non-human agent. And YES to “brainstorming”!

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    If I can make a suggestion here. If we could all take a moment to message ALZConnected moderator and email to [email protected] expressing your take on the changes it may be annoying enough to get a little attention. Hopefully when someone gets back Tuesday.

  • GothicGremlin
    GothicGremlin Member Posts: 1,624
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    edited September 6

    @dcare45

    I think sending a message to the moderator is a great idea - I'll make sure to do it before the end of the day today.

    So…….

    I went through the ACM that @Victoriaredux cited. It's long. And disgusting.

    I think one of the things @ALZConnected Moderator could have done was to post something about participating in this study so that members could comment on whether or not we wanted to be guinea pigs. Legally, are they required to do this? Nope. But, by informing us about their participation, they could have prevented the bad will that they are currently generating.

    Apologies for my "verbosity" (see chart below) in advance, but I'm going to excerpt some passages from the report, just so we all know what we're looking at.

    From the report:

    We collected the dataset of the entire r/Alzheimers and ALZConnected
    communities—1,000 posts and 12,429 comments from r/Alzheimers, and
    10,277 posts and 79,663 comments from ALZConnected. We prompted each of
    the posts in this dataset as queries to GPT-4.0-Turbo.3 We employed
    natural language analyses and statistical tests to measure linguistic
    differences in AI and OC responses across the dimensions of (1)
    psycholinguistics, (2) lexico-semantics, and (3) content.We
    contextualize and situate our analyses based on a rich body of prior
    work in psycholinguistics, social media analytics, and natural language
    processing.

    —

    Privacy, Ethics, and Reflexivity. This article used publicly accessible
    social media discussions
    on OCs and did not require any direct
    interactions with the individuals. Hence, it did not require an ethics
    board approval. However, we are committed to the ethics of the research
    and followed practices to secure the privacy of the individuals in our
    dataset. We recognize the sensitivities of our study in terms of
    revealing the identities of the individuals. This article only presents
    paraphrased quotes to reduce traceability yet provide context in
    readership. Our research team comprises researchers holding diverse
    gender, racial, and cultural backgrounds, including people of color and
    immigrants, and hold interdisciplinary research expertise in the areas
    of human-computer interaction (HCI), computer-supported cooperative
    work, social computing, ubiquitous computing, and Health Informatics.

    (bolding done by me)

    —

    method and approach (overview)

    We simulated scenarios of prompting AI chatbots (AI), primarily OpenAI’s GPT [7] with
    AD/ADRD-related queries, gathered from OCs, particularly r/Alzheimers
    and ALZConnected. Methodologically, we conducted (1) a small-scale
    qualitative analysis (Section 4) and (2) a large-scale quantitative
    comparison of AI responses and OC responses (Section 5).

    ALZConnected:
    ALZConnected is a freely accessible Web site (alzconnected.org) housing
    OCs and discussion boards dedicated to patients and caregivers coping
    with AD/ADRD. Here, community members express AD/ADRD-related concerns
    and provide and seek support from one another. Although a more recent
    OC, it has already grown a significant userbase and is supported by the
    Alzheimer’s Association (alz.org). This community has multiple thematic
    discussion boards under (1) living with AD/ADRD, and (2) supporting
    someone living with AD/ADRD, further broken down into seven
    sub-categories (see Table 1).

    In total, we sampled 31 posts with
    761 comments from r/Alzheimers and 70 posts with 463 comments from
    ALZConnected. Table 1 summarizes our data sampled across different
    communities. These posts span a variety of interests, such as seeking
    information (e.g., “where to find good gear for my dad?”), emotional
    support (e.g., “Today, I lost my mother. I desperately wish I knew where
    she is now. I keep going to her room to check on her and hold her
    hand.”), and advice (e.g., “My dad has had Alzheimer’s for 5 years, but
    now it is getting worse [.] Any advice on what else could be tried.” Our
    sample also contained people’s self-experiences in AD/ADRD management
    and volunteering to help the community, such as, “My father-in-law died
    last week. I am a former caregiver with almost 10 years of experience.
    What now? I want to help but do not know where to start [.]”

    Findings

    On ALZConnected, we also noted a few posts from people with younger-onset
    AD/ADRD. Other community members responded with emotional and
    informational support and also shared from their experiences.

    And here's one of the charts:

    acm alz chart.jpg

    I'm assuming "OC" means "original content." If so, great, we're being graded on vocab, grammar, etc. I thought I was done with all of that! (sarcasm) 😒

  • sandwichone123
    sandwichone123 Member Posts: 1,385
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    While I miss the numbers, and the context they provide, and I resent the "answered," as if one answer caps all and further responses are not required, I find the "best answer" notation by far the most offensive. If the person recommending waterproof bed coverings uses longer sentences than the person recommending seeing an attorney, does that make bed coverings more important? Does it matter what the original question was, or where the discussion has gone from there? Or, if a response generates more "care" icons, does that make it the best? Who knows? We, the seasoned posters, mostly won't care, and we're unlikely to compete for such questionable accolades, but these notations could prove seriously off-putting for new folks. Seasoned posters may care, though, about any evidence that we've been providing support for bots whose existence is only to test us.

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    I just watched the Dick Van DELETED show. A blast from the past I was checking on this.

  • dcare45
    dcare45 Member Posts: 232
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    No Kidding. We are being monitored kids. Deleted to fast to be a moderator, must be AI or an edit program. AH the human experience being curated by a machine.

  • SusanB-dil
    SusanB-dil Member Posts: 971
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    AHA!! This is why i can feel that the warmth on this forum has 'left the building'. I just knew it!

    Agree... I don't like this, and yes, GG, it is rather disgusting. Also rather disturbing!

    I tried e-m to the moderators already on Friday. Now this new information is unsettling and also the whole scenario makes me sad.

    Not only that... we are already dealing with a lot, just to add this on our plate?

    ~sigh~

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 339
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    I had a tech issue this weekend (not this board) and asked an AI program some questions about it. The answers were vague , contradictory .

    When I pointed that out , "it" laughed ,in text, and said "sorry ". Few more wrong answers I said "I don't trust you." Asked another question , "it" refused to answer " you don't trust me -get help elsewhere." "It" pouts?

    AI may tell me how to fix a broken toaster but will NEVER give human warmth.

    My question is what AlzAssociarion was paid to do this ,how much do they expect to earn by adapting this approach? Money can ,hopefully, fund research.

    If turning us into guinea pigs was just to see what would happen and they didn't get paid- that's worse in my book— and that they didn't KNOW already that the human,real human, touch matters.

Commonly Used Abbreviations


DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
Read more