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Ordering Supplements

Birdie456
Birdie456 Member Posts: 4
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Hello, this is my first post here, though I have read through many discussions and found them insightful and therapeutic. My DH was diagnosed with AD last year, had been showing symptoms of dementia for several years, and had a previous diagnosis of MCI.

For several years, he's been ordering various supplements that claim to improve memory, reverse AD, help with sleep, or improve urinary issues. He has spent thousands of dollars on these supplements, and of course, the companies that sell these products know he's an easy target. He falls for their 'discount' by ordering a case of bottles every time. Some of the products appear to help with memory, but most need to be returned within a specific timeframe. DH is not able to manage this effectively, so we have dozens and dozens of bottles of pills he isn't taking that he can't return.

I had him sign an agreement stating that he wouldn't place any further orders. He's violated it at least six times since. When I try to discuss it, he yells, "Just STOP IT!"

We cancelled his credit card last year, but he now uses his debit card to make online purchases. I get alerts for any purchases over $100, which is usually how I find out he's placed another order. If I take the card away, I will have a big fight, and he will have no means to buy his fast-food meals, gas, or any other purchases.

Has anyone else faced the supplement battle and had success in stopping the flow of pills in and money out?

Thank you,

Birdie456

Comments

  • harshedbuzz
    harshedbuzz Member Posts: 5,935
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    edited September 8

    Why would a PWD have access to the internet? Change the WiFi password. Tell him it's down.

  • Quilting brings calm
    Quilting brings calm Member Posts: 2,978
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    You either cancel his debit card, somehow reduce the allowed charges on it to a low price and/ or change the internet password. He’s proven over and over he can’t be trusted with the card or to be responsible with money. You must save your financial security regardless of what he wants.

  • trottingalong
    trottingalong Member Posts: 823
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    I don’t think we intentionally mean to be unkind. I know I don’t, but I can be too blunt. You are correct though, kindness should always take precedence. Thank you for the reminder, I will do better.

  • trottingalong
    trottingalong Member Posts: 823
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    I’m glad you were able to put a limit on the debit card and I apologize for my earlier response. I have been where you are currently. Please keep coming back.

  • harshedbuzz
    harshedbuzz Member Posts: 5,935
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    I am sorry if I came off harshly. This could become a hair on fire situation. It's no excuse but I was in the midst of an allergic reaction and not my usual charming self. The meds. Yikes.

    Let me start over.

    I am sorry for your reason to be here but pleased you found this place. I recall how hard it was too be in your shoes with a newly diagnosed LO who needs you to protect them from themselves but feeling torn. You naturally want to preserve what independence and dignity you can. You might even fear agitation and aggression as a consequence if your LO is not someone who easily goes along with suggestions.

    I get it. My own dad had a challenging personality and dementia only magnified that. My mom's reluctance to take charge of the situation continues to cost here dearly. There are unique challenges to each stage of the disease's progression. But for me, the absolute hardest was the one you are facing now— that stage where your LO requires supervision and limits but is still with it enough to resent the daylights out of it. It was actually easier to work around dad's personality/needs when he was in later stages; the house was certainly calmer then.

    Your DH may have some degree of anosognosia. This is where a PWD can't recognize the degree to which they are impaired. When dad was at your DH's stage as you describe it, he would admit to a poor memory which he attributed to aging, but he could not appreciate how profoundly impacted his empathy, reasoning skills, executive function and processing skills were.

    It was during this time that dad started dabbling in day trading. He managed to lose $360K; his positions were almost laughably awful when I took them over. That money would have come in handy in terms of buying more respite time. Mom might have been able to keep him at home with 24/7 help which was what she wanted, but there wasn't that kind of money available. And now that she might need care, it could impact the options we have for her.

    Mom was happy to have him occupied in his den playing on the computer. I'm still putting out fires; not long after he died I found 5 different internet security suites on auto-renew to the tune of about $300 each. Earlier this summer, I found a charge on mom's credit card I didn't recognize— it was a monthly insurance fee for the cell phone dad bought in 2005. They paid over $2100 to insure a flip phone.

    I leave the driving to others; it's a Unity Horse around these parts. But IMO, there is no good reason for a PWD to have access to the internet or cellular data. There are too many ways for this to go sideways. The online shopping situation is a pretty common one. This can be complicated if the PWD is gifting others as it can impact Residential Medicaid when the PWD runs out of money during the 5-year-lookback.

    Other internet issues can be getting caught up in email scams. I had dinner with a friend last month whose dad got scammed out of over $10K responding to a "Norton Security" email telling him that his security needed to be updated. Dad called the number provided at 4am when he was wandering about. They talked him through allowing them access to the device, obtained all manner of sensitive information and drafted money out of his checking and savings account immediately. The son spent the last 2 days of his vacation changing accounts, setting up new 2-step authentication (with his phone), redirecting both parents' SSA direct deposit, pensions, etc.

    Another issue is visiting sites they shouldn't. A few folks have had their LO go to porn and unwittingly end up in an illegal site. These sites may be monitored by state law enforcement and your ISP address would be reported. This could result in a big headache. This happened to a family in my IRL support group.

    That said, I feel your pain in watching your LO looking for something to save them. I'm currently watching my mom who clearly is having some issues with memory and word finding. She's mused about perhaps trying one of these OTC supplements just in case. UGH.

    HB

  • Maru
    Maru Member Posts: 227
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    We had just had our wills and trusts made before DH was diagnosed with AD. Part of that was POA. So with that in place when DH fell for an online scam re: one of our banks and we nearly lost $30,000, I stepped in and changed all monied accounts and investments to me as the contact person. I changed User names and passwords and personally talked to our investor. DH did not offer objections.

    You can order placebo pills. If you were to use one of his brain supplement bottles and fill it with placebo pills that might pacify him. You could tell him that you found them on special sale. Yes, we do lie to our loved ones with dementia. Good luck.

  •  Bridge4
    Bridge4 Member Posts: 60
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    Thanks to all for starting and contributing to this thread. This is my self-incrimination to acknowledge a problem and hold myself accountable to take actions: I agree with Victoria that this is both a financial and moral issue that will eventually demand action to avoid serious consequences. Unfortunately, my DW is falling victim to this exact situation the last couple of months. The financial impact of wasting over $2000 on worthless supplements doesn’t bother me as much as the moral outrage that she is being victimized by low-life scum on line. When I saw the problem and warned her she attacked me instead of the people that are taking advantage of her. We have all the DPOA and incapacity documents in place, but I have held off on cutting her access to accounts until now. I was only fooling myself by saying that she is “not that bad yet”, when in reality I was just trying to avoid the humongous confrontation that will ensue when I cut her off from financial accounts she has been using for many years. Not only do I dread the confrontation, but I am also sad that it is just another step in removing her agency and independence, and will be a painful reminder of how much her world is shrinking. I will continue to look both here and through other sources for suggestions to manage the transition over the coming weeks. I wish you all the best as you help your LO’s manage the process of shrinking their world to protect their safety, security and dignity.

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 61
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    Blame a data breach and that's why accounts and the internet are inaccessible IF she asks. You may feel you need to explain the situation because you valued open honesty in your relationship. The disease changes things - having them safe and calm is a kindness.

    "Darn banks" & a change of topics is a lot easier than a re-hash of "why won't YOU give me MY checkbook" That's a groundhog day no one wants.

    And it maybe a save face with you-I had a PWD who insisted early on in their authoritative parental voice the money situation was "just fine" "leave me alone" - then their fortunately honest meter reader called us and said the PWD had said to them ' can you help me with my bills- I don't understand them anymore.'

    If she gets the mail or looks through paper - maybe going paperless statements or using a PO Box. You may find out of sight -out of mind for many things. A low value reloadable bank card can give her money if she needs to pay for a meal when out with relatives.

  • Sunfish47
    Sunfish47 Member Posts: 26
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    Yes there is a lot of scams and schemes to prey on the elderly. We were victims but didn’t get hit too badly.
    Back in 2020 when I was starting to see DH had real problems with judgment, and he was worried about what we called his “memory issues,” he also started ordering supplements online. He received a few expensive orders before I stopped it by calling the credit card companies (he had 3 cards) to shut off those cards. He complained about his non functioning cards but I told him some fib about bank fraud that he accepted. And thankfully he didn’t any longer know how to get replacement credit cards.
    Also, he had lost his debit card the previous year, so that was thank god no longer an issue.
    He was still accessing the internet in 2021 and was the victim of a couple scams: a woman who needed money for her disabled son ($300 cash sent to her on a gift card I think); another woman who needed money for her grandmother ($200 gift card sent); and a woman running an inheritance scam that he sent two iPhones to (he called AT&T to charge these to our phone bill). The iPhones woman was trying to get a large sum of money from him but our daughters stepped in to put a stop to that. After texting with her, they felt she was part of a criminal ring in Cambodia, but then found out she was in an African country.
    When all this happened in 2021, I quickly transferred all joint bank account funds to a new account under just my name (where my Social Security check goes), and I transferred all joint brokerage accounts to a new account under just my name. Our daughters are the beneficiaries of these new accounts.
    At that time we redid our wills and Durable power of attorney docs and healthcare directives also, naming our daughters to act for us as needed, instead of each other. I got him to sign by telling him we were both too old to make these decisions for each other.
    Currently he doesn’t know how to access the internet anymore much less use the tv remote. I will put YouTube on his laptop so he can watch the music videos and I bring up tik tok on his cell phone for him so he can watch those videos also (this can keep him occupied for hours). So we are past the internet scam issues now.

  • Victoriaredux
    Victoriaredux Member Posts: 61
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    Assume you discussed retitling your joint assets with your tax advisor to be sure you won't lose out on any step-up benefits that could apply. Paying taxes is a duty, overpaying is a crime in my book

    .

    Just for general info not a recommendation

Commonly Used Abbreviations


DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
Read more