Deception but not the usual topic

Hooch33

my mom has dementia and I've well read on the topic of the tendency to lie to fill in memory holes, or confabulation. I cannot find any material on this behavior:

We will giver her a plate of food and ask her to be sure to eat it all. Total of 4+ ozs between all the items so not a large helping by any reasonable gauge. We'll remind her a few times as she nibbles at it over the course of 2+ hours during which she eats barely enough to notice. We'll get up to do something else in the house, come back and find her plate is in the sink and clean. When asked if she ate she says Yes. Her food is in the trash, UNDER other items so clearly she has moved items out of the way to hide what she is not eating.

Same things happen with water. She'll have a glass all day and barely drink any. Claims it tastes horrible, or doesn't taste at all which is equally as bad in her eyes. We leave the room and come back and find the empty cup by the sink. "did you drink all the water?". "Yes".

We have security cameras in the house and review to see that As Soon As we leave the room she's up dumping the food or pouring out the water. She vehemently denies doing either.

So to bring it full circle, it isn't confabulation, at least not at the point she's disposing of the food or water. Anyone have similar experiences?

Just looking to understand how common it is at this point

M1

Honestly, I'd quit being the food and drink police. Does it matter? What are you trying to achieve? I get that you care for her well-being in general, but sounds like you're driving yourself nuts. She's got a terminal disease, if i were you I'd make sure options are available to her but beyond that i would totally let it go.

allit

has she been living with dementia for a long time? is this a new behavior for her? is she doing some eating and drinking or do you think she's basically hardly eating and drinking? seems like an intentional behavior since she is hiding the evidence or waiting until you are gone to do it. this may be way off base, but is she intentionally trying to starve herself for some reason?

harshedbuzz

@Hooch33

Depending on your mom's age, she likely grew up with clean-your-plate depression era parents and developed this behavior as a child and is reverting to that.

HB

H1235

Could it be she thinks she just ate and therefore thinks you are pushing her to eat more than what she needs. If she thinks you are being unreasonable by asking her to eat the food, I can see where she might hide it to avoid eating what she deems too much. It could just be her way of avoiding conflict with you. We have all heard how a person with dementia may have an age equivalent of a young child. Well, I can definitely see a young child doing something like this. At least she is not throwing the plate of food at you.

Kat12345

It is not easy to tell what the problem is. I generally start with asking is there a medical/physical explanation (medical doctor might offer something here). If not then is there something I am doing or not doing (behavior/actions), that has contributed and/or is there something I can do or not so that might help resolve this.

M1

Hooch another poster (Addy) has a very similar thread. Is your mom on NAmenda or Aricept? Both of those drugs are notorious for suppressing appetite.

mrsabaldwin

From what I have read and experienced with my mom, this sounds like typical behavior for dementia. Here’s what I posted to a similar discussion:

So weight loss and food aversion were some of the concerns I had when I took my mom to her PCM last April and she was diagnosed with dementia. Digging deeper on my own, I discovered that as the brain atrophies with dementia the ability to feel hunger is affected as well. Foods that my mom loved, she hates now. She will imagine that lettuce is pickles or that peanut butter is tuna. And she refuses to eat based on these imaginations. She will also flat out refuse food. Sometimes because she feels full despite not eating at all that day and other times she has delusions of get-togethers with family and cooking a bunch of food and claims she’s eaten a lot and is full. I’ve tried everything I can think of from milkshakes to sneaking protein into foods she will eat to nutritional shakes and adding as much fats to food and it is no use. She will love a food for a while and then refuses it at a later point. Her imagination is something else. One day she said she had soup for lunch and it was bitter and that means someone tried to poison her! In reality she had toast, eggs, and a protein shake for breakfast. She hadn’t had lunch yet….that was what I was trying to do, feed her lunch. And it was not soup! 

I have just come to the conclusion that I cannot purchase anything in bulk as it will be a waste of money when she decides she no longer likes it. And I have to “trick” her a lot. Things like telling her someone dropped of a treat for her etc.

Melissa Waldroup

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/218907#Comment_218907

I’m going through the same thing with my dad. I’m sorry you’re going through this. It is hard.

Hooch33

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/218692#Comment_218692

Honestly, you have contributed nothing useful to this topic..

H1235

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/219123#Comment_219123

That is very harsh. You may not agree with him, but I have no doubt his comments were given with best intentions. M1 is a very wise and trusted member of this online community.

mabelgirl

my moms pcp in geriatrics advised me to just let her eat whatever she wants when she wants. What I do is get snack like food that I know she has liked or eaten before. I make a tray of selections along with a high protein meal shake and let her eat at her pace. For meals I’ll just leave a plate and let her decide. I think her PCP is basically saying the same as M1 , make her days comfortable instead of making her accountable to our desires. Prayers for acceptance.

Emily 123

Hi,

It's hard to see them just pick, especially if it's at something that used to be a favorite, isn't it?

The disease seems to change preferences about food textures and presentation, and it may be that it affects taste as well. The body's caloric needs are changing, and the disease may be interfering with her sense of fullness or hunger. There's the whole being 'lost in time' thing as well, because there's no real memory of eating.

My mom became very particular about having the food items be single things rather than a mix (no more stews or rice-bowls). She preferred her food to not mix together on the plate. Some things she just stopped liking. She wouldn't drink water but she would drink juice. She'd still eat fruit, especially grapes, which made me feel better because she'd at least be getting some fluid in that way.

As the disease progresses the person is able to taste sweet things better, so if you're concerned about intake see if something like a smoothie goes over well. My Mom really liked those yogurt cups that come with the little cookie bits to mix in—very dessert-like. You'll need her to take her calories where she can.

If she's not interested in something, try taking it away and bring it back later without comment or treat it like it's new. You don't want her to feel angst around the meals. She may not remember a specific incident, but she will remember the emotion around being pressed to eat and that can make things harder. Several attempts where she eats a few ounces each time may be more successful than trying to keep her at the table. My mom didn't like to eat if I served her and didn't eat as well--she was very aware of any difference between our meals. I had to eat pretty slowly, so she wouldn't say she was done because she felt pressured.

I did have good luck by always having some nice cookies out and ready for dessert—she'd eat a little more that way, but if she was done, she was done (there was always room for those cookies though LOL).

Sometimes an antidepressant like lexapro or welbutrin can help spur the appetitie, so you may want to discuss with her physician if she seems to be losing weight.

JM27

Hi Hooch,

My father likes things that sweet currently. So what I have been doing is diluting the juice with water so he can still get some hydration in there. At times sweeter will taste better. Although I try to prepare healthier meals I do have snacks that are tasty but lower in sugar ect.

Like M1 said try to keep different options available. Or maybe make a smoothy in the morning something tasty still with protein and water to get help stay hydrated.

Hope you’re able to find something that works.

Hang in there.

harshedbuzz

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/219123#Comment_219123

@Hooch33

With all due respect, sometimes it's hard to have the reality of your situation spelled out but that doesn't negate of the post as either support or information. And FTR, M1 offers a unique perspective not only as the caregiver of a loved one which unusually difficult behaviors and as an internist.

There's precious little we, as caregivers, have to offer our LOs in terms of dementia-care. At a certain point, you can't overcome the changes the disease brings. You can, and should, see if getting calories in is doable using different strategies. If you can't overcome the impact of dementia on her eating habits, it better to preserve her feeling of safety with you than forcing things and making everyone miserable. Emotional intelligence remains well into the later stages of the disease.

HB

mrsabaldwin

https://alzconnected.org/discussion/comment/218692#Comment_218692

Had a really eye opening conversation with my mom’s doctor last week. He was very caring and honest. He said I had two jobs - keep mom safe and take care of my own mental health. As the disease progresses we need to let go of the need to provide a perfect diet and just feed them what they will eat. Her doctor advised that as the dementia progresses he will start removing medication and supplements that are no longer needed as well. In fact as we talked, he had me stop a couple immediately. Listened to a Teepa Snow podcast interview that said the same thing. Let our own expectations go. If all they want is milkshakes so be it.

NizhoniGrrl

My mother is still pretty high functioning but she definitely does things like this. I consider it part of her becoming more and more like a young child. It isn’t rational but it also shows that she isn’t able to use her words to resist something she doesn’t want to do, so they do the next easiest thing with is lying. And in some cases, I think they know they are lying, but their goal is met. My mom didn’t like that the caregiver was throwing out an allegedly empty garbage bag (so wasteful!) so she’s started hiding the garbage can in her closet. Seemed rational to her rather than saying the garbage does not need to be taken out. She allow claims to be worried about waste, which she never did before.

Mona D

Hi there! My MIL passed with Alzheimers. And my mom is at beginning stages. Idk where your mom is, but my MIL stopped eating at the beginning of the end. My FIL had to feed her like a baby until she just quit eating all together. This may not be true for your situation. I do have to agree a bit with the food police comment. As I'm sure you know, stress isn't helping anyone. There comes a time when it is, what it is. Enjoy her while you can and don't waste your energy and add to anxiety with food fights. I wish you the best !

CaliforniaGirl-1

It is not unusual. Nor is it unusual to find yourself in a power struggle over eating and food. You have to take a deep breath and let it go. They either are not hungry or don't recognize that they are hungry or they are trying to assert some control where they can over a scary situation. In any case, battling is stressful for both of you and doomed to be non-productive. (Can you tell I have been there?)

At this point a calorie is a calorie. Let them eat bacon and ice cream or whatever you can get them to eat. Talk to the doctor and get some Ensure into her every day.

Appetite comes and goes and when my LO eats less we increase the insure. There are some medications that have as a side effect increased appetite.

I agree whole heartedly with whoever talked about letting it go and thinking about your own stress. MY LO's physician said the same thing. If you can get supplements or liquid in, taking care of both hydration and nutrition call it a win. If your mom will eat ice cream twice a day, go for it.