Just need to talk to my friends (169)
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Dear Lorita, I am deeply sorry for what is happening to Jack; this has become a crisis situation. By helping get him to desperately needed assistance, you are not doing anything "to" him; you are doing something "for" him; that is very important in light of the deterioration and what is happening. One cannot look the other way and simply hope something will change - that is highly unlikely and much harm to him may well be avoided by making connections to get him to care that he desperately needs; even if it is initially involuntary until such time he can make better decisions for himself; if ever.
Jack is in a terrible situation; the one thing we have not discussed is his severe lack of judgment and reasoning. It is possible he has, for some time, been developing cognitive changes along with the depression and isolation; the lack of judgment and reasoning may well be the overt symptoms of what is happening to his mental status. You have not seen him in person and hear only what he chooses to communicate on the phone whether that is accurate or not, and it has not been good. As most of us know, that is often not a reliable measuring tool for the realities of how bad things have become.
From what has been written, it appears he is unable to take care of himself. Period. If he were helped, especially if he was placed, he would have meals, socialization, hygiene, clean clothes, mobility assistance, any needed medical care, activities if he wishes; he would be cared for and no more isolation and fear about no one being there to help him. It may well be that there are cognitive issues that are part of the barrier in getting him to such assistance doing it for himself, and if so, then more has to be done to find help for him.
In order to help, you will need to do a bit of homework and gather information for knowledge of where to head.
I personally would contact the Sheriff's Department and ask to speak to the person who handles calls for unsafe elderly at high risk. Police officers are mandated reporters. Explain the situation in detail re not eating, falling, not being able to get up, etc. Ask what services they know are available.
I would also call Adult Protective Services and ask to speak to the Supervisor of the Case Workers. Again; explain all in detail and ask what specifically they would do if he is found to be unable to care for himself and what services are available. Specifics.
Also, I would make a couple of calls to two Senior Centers near his area and ask if they have a social worker; many do. Again, explain the situation in detail and ask what can be done for a person who no longer can care for themselves and what services would be available.
You could contact the Alzheimer's Assn. Helpline requesting to be transferred to a Care Consultant to ask for advice and guidance about what could be done in such a situation; again, being detailed re lack of food, lack of mobility, falling, compromised judgment and reasoning, etc. (800) 272-3900.
You can even speak to a DON at a NH explaining the situation and ask her/him what sort of services are available. And continue from there, contact, discuss, ask. You will soon know where the real help would be.
All this research will begin to give answers that will help devise an approach to obtaining help for Jack.
Someone needs to get INTO the house to assess him and the home. My guess is; is that it is all more dire than he has shared.
And - in the calls you will make; contact the "no-kill" animal shelters near Jack; explain Zelda's situation and Jack's difficulties and ask how to go about placing Zelda IF Jack permits that to be done. Frankly; we can only hope against hope that he is actually feeding her properly with proper food and that he remembers to keep her water dish filled. I do have concerns on that front as well as I think there is also room to have concern whether or not Zelda gets out in time for potty, and that she gets back in if weather is not good and that he does not forget and leave her outside overnight.
As it is, if Jack does go to an alternative living setting, Zelda will need to go to care and hopefully it will be a "no-kill setting, so good to know what is available and where there is room.
We here are aware that Zelda is an abused dog. Not beaten, but neglect abuse. She deserves so much better. You are right; your place is not the place for Zelda. She has a loving home waiting for her if only someone will help her get to the helping place.
Strong words I know; but Jack has nobody else but you dear Lorita; his BIL is not on good terms with him and does not like him and does not see him except for the one wellness check when no one had heard from Jack. It will take someone who cares to do the up front work to find assistance.
Sure wish I could help, and would if I could; but am far too far away. Please let us know how the poor man is doing, I truly am concerned for Jack and for Zelda, and so hope that he gets to a care situation where he hopefully will be blessed with good care and his quality of life much improved. That would be the perfect outcome; we can hope.
J.
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Lorita, please please listen to what Jo said. You know she is wise, and Jack is bad off. How will you feel if you do not do anything, at least call sheriff with concerns, and worse things happen? Will you wish you had done something, or will you be OK with saying he did not want help? You are so upset, I think you want to help him. He does not seem to be thinking straight at all, as Jo said.
People can have strokes and deny it happened, even when the effects are plain to see. That happened to my mother, who insisted she was ok even when her speech was impaired and half her face paralyzed. Thankfully visitors called for help, against her wishes. Rehab people told me later that denial happens a lot.
That may not be what happened to Jack, but people who are sick and hurting often do not give others the full story about it, especially when they are not face-to-face.
Do you have a way to call the daughter? I think you said you haven’t met or talked to her. She may be or do better than you think. Many times family will step up in crisis, even if things haven’t been good before.
The poor dog is heart-breaking. They depend on us for care, they can’t talk or call for help…she is in such a sad situation. It hurts to think about.
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Lorita, your head must be spinning with all the thoughts about Jack's situation and what to do about it! Probably a call to the sheriff letting him know Jack is weak, not eating, verbalizes wanting to die, etc. Also would tell the sheriff about Zelda. I know you will do what you think is best.
Lorita, Houston is 1000 miles away. It'd be a 15-16 hour drive, which we have done several times. We are planning on flying this time. It's just a long weekend, so don't want to spend it on the road.
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Lorita...this would be a good contact
I am surprised his neighbors have not already contacted them.
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Judith, thanks for Fabio's recipes!
Lorita, ditto what Jo C and the others have said. I was obsessing about Jack and Zelda all night. That's why I recommend against frail seniors getting new dogs or cats. Animals need care!
This story is triggering me. People want to manage their own lives and make their own decisions. But once it gets to the point where other people have had to become involved because of a non-care issue, the person loses a degree of independent decision-making. Meaning, if you become a burden to other people, they will wind up making your decisions for you! This is what I have learned from reading the boards and from experience with my own family and other people I know of. This is what I am aiming to avoid in my own life by becoming proactive in decisions for my own care.
I'm praying for you, Lorita.
Iris
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Not always a burden...Always a responsibility...true.
I know I have things mapped out for me as completely as I can forsee maintaining "independence". I have LTC insurance and hopefully enough money to see me to the end.
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Hi,
So many good friends and so many good suggestions - every one of them. Really has given me something to think about. Rescue Mom, my head is spinning from wondering what to do. But, I'm 99% sure that Jack will refuse any of them - I bet he wouldn't let anyone into the house. The condition of the house may be one contributing factor in that. I believe I remember talking to them about meals on wheels in the past. Jack for sure would refuse those in that he doesn't eat much. He did tell me he had drunk three cans of Ensure today. I asked him if he had enough and he said he had enough for now. He doesn't know what he'll do when he runs out. He did tell me he couldn't even make it out to the mailbox but is standing and walking some today.
He is very adamant that he does not want any interference. When I start asking questions he tells me to please not do that. If a person won't let someone into their home to help them, there's nothing they can do - they won't break in, however, a few years ago during an ice storm we were worried about my sister because I couldn't get in touch with her. I called for a welfare check and the police went out and did get into the house - through a door or window, not sure. She wasn't home - she and her daughter had gone out to look for an electric company truck about the power being off. They called me to tell me she wasn't home but that the house was very warm. She and her daughter got home shortly after that and were fine.
Jack will not accept help. I think he wants to die and he's going to make sure nothing stops this. He told me he can't understand why he's still here and just wants to go. I told him that God had a reason for him still being here and that as long as he does he will continue to live. He says he has no purpose. I understand that - I feel like that sometimes until I realize my purpose is taking care of the GPs, cats and watching the cattle.
He said to give him a couple of days so I told him I'd wait until Tuesday and then have to do something. I don't know if he means he'll die by then or what. Three days ago he told me he was thinking about going into a NH but seems to have changed his mind.
Iris, you are so sweet, thank you for caring - thank all of you for caring and for the suggestions. I feel sorry for Zelda. I've told him about the animal shelter. He's concerned that if something happens to him that no one will know about her. At the time they got Zelda they were both in pretty good health - then two days later he fell and broke his hip. Many times Patsy has told me the should never have gotten her. She hasn't been socialized with people or other animals so he thinks no one would take her. I've seen her pictures, when she was a puppy, and she's beautiful.
Didn't hear back from Johnny (BIL). Either they're not home or he doesn't want to get involved. I doubt that it would do any good to call his daughter.
Zetta - Jack will be 86 in June. He's not a big man at all - pretty frail the last time I saw him which was two or three years ago. He doesn't get around very well since he broke his hip either.
It's really hard when you lose the one person who meant so much to you. They never really made friends although they've been here 30 years. She had a friend or two at the library but as far as I know his only acquaintance is the woman who cuts his hair and was her hairdresser. After she passed away one neighbor did bring him some food a couple of times but that's all as far as I know.
If I called one of the home health agencies and talked to the RN and they did go out - he'd never let them in. If he refuses help from a welfare check, they won't do anything either. We went through that with Patsy. She refused to go to the hospital in the ambulance so they couldn't make her. Really a bad situation.
Judith, I also have LTC insurance which should take care of me for a few years. I've made and paid for my final expenses since there would be no one to make the arrangements. I wonder what would happen in Jack's case.
Really a problem. I'll think more about it and probably will call one of the agencies tomorrow and see what they suggest. Maybe they've dealt with cases like this before.
Will just have to wait to see what tomorrow brings. Supposed to be stormy tonight so I closed the gate to keep April and mom inside tonight. Don't want her to get scared and lost in the storm tonight.
Thanks again to all of you. I doubt there's ever been a better, more caring group of friends. I think what we've been through has made all of us more aware of life's hurdles.
I'll see you all tomorrow.Almost lost this so I'll close. Sleep well.
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Good evening everyone - I am checking in late so will keep it short and sweet. I've been sleeping in, and also working like a busy bee once awake, taking care of as many big and little tasks as possible while I have a little break.
Hoping this reflection does not land me in the dog house or on the far corner of the porch with my rocker turned to the wall I know we don't do that here--everyone's opinion is respected I have seen, yet with all the healers in this front porch friend-group you might disagree with what is coming to mind for me right now hearing about Jack's situation and his repeated consistent requests not to intervene. Hoping also that this is not further triggering for Iris or anyone.
I think the instinct for healers (and many others, maybe most people (?)) is to rescue and work to save someone, no matter what. Thank goodness we have medical pros and first responders who think that way! Yet, I also believe that it can be very caring, and also absolutely doing the right thing sometimes, to let a person in the situation Jack is in have their way and die with dignity if that is the way they see it. I have had loved ones who told us very clearly early on, that they did not want any extreme measures to prolong their lives if something happened, illness or accident. And that their main wish was to die at home if at all possible. Not in a hospital or nursing home. I can think of 3 who actually did exactly that and 2 others who came close (just the last couple of days in hospital for additional comfort meds). Maybe that is what Jack means when he says "please don't do this". And also denies the ambulance. Maybe he is ready to go, and wants to do so at home. I can understand that though it seems like a brave choice to me - not sure I will be so brave when the time comes. I have LTC insurance; started it as soon as this all happened to DH) and I hope to be able to continue affording it. I may or may not have other funds if needed after funding his care, unless able to work many years in Stage 8. Time will tell.
Lorita, you are a good friend. I think you told Jack you'd give him a little time and then call for a wellness check plus alert them to Zelda's possible needs for food and water, or re-homing. Even if you report the situation immediately you will have done your part and hopefully will not feel too sad if he declines the help and decides he is done. Maybe letting him do it his way is not wrong at all. Tough situation. Really pulls at the heartstrings.
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Going to be far too long; I am sorry for that, but I feel so bad for Jack.
This is a significantly difficult situation, and one in which you do not have direct family ties and may not want to get deeply involved, that is completely understandable. You have been caught in the middle but are the only one he speaks with and has routine contact with - you appear to be his only thread to the world outside of his home.
Of course he will not approve of any assistance and refuse; he is significantly compromised, depressed cannot make decisions for himself and is barely existing on a thin thread losing ground every single day and is very much afraid and has no peace. He is in a dreadful set of conditions, has lost ability to use even minimally adequate judgment and reasoning, he is terrified, feels horribly insecure, but as bad as it is, it is a known situation to him, and the thought of change must seem horribly frightening because change is an unknown. He really has no way of knowing how to help himself.
He wants the horrible feelings to stop. Someone will have to help for him to be able to have that happen.
One problem it seems, is that one is using logic with a person who is not using logic and seems to not be capable of using logic and who has severely comprised judgment and reasoning; that seems to not be helping. As said, he may have been developing cognitive and mental health issues. The other problem is; believing what he tells you out of hand - there is no way short of visiting to know what is accurate, truthful or not. He may be sounding as though he is being accurate, and one may want to be able to believe it; but many of us are aware that is not the case with so many in our experiences . . . especially NOT when possible cognitive changes and/or mental health issues are in the picture.
He has mentioned wanting to die - he appears severely depressed and anxious - he cannot take care of himself; he is at high risk for so much. He has lost adequate judgment and reasoning and is very much frightened, feeling horribly insecure, cannot stand or walk much of the time, can't even get outside to his mailbox, is not adequately feeding himself, has had a recent fall, and is not able to make decisions for himself for his needs AND - this is important: despite the physical issues and his situation; he is unable, as in not capable, to reach out for the care/assistance he needs. The depression, anxiety and fear and having no one to provide food, and other pertinent services has to be like living in a hellish state, 24 hours each and every day. All of that can be helped.
Remember; this is also a house that has a significant hoarding problem. An agency came in and did a small amount of removal when his wife was still alive, but they could not continue - they were refused to do any more. I recall there is no sleeping in a bed as the bedroom is a hugely hoarded area and there is no room in there.
Can you imagine what the house and his hygiene must be like? Is he able to get out of the chair to even make it to the bathroom all the time since he often is unable to stand? How is he getting food into himself? What is the state of the kitchen for not being a health hazard with possible rotten food in the refrigerator; all of this is not known. We do know, as said, that the house has been a hoarder house; so he has great reason to not let anyone inside the place.
He once mentioned going into his wife's former long term care facility; what that probably meant at the time is that he is slighty familiar with the setting, and feels the burden being taken off his shoulders and being safe, secure and all being taken care of; then he retreats from that thought. There may be even better facility settings for him, but no one is stepping up to the plate when he is not capable of doing any of that planning or even screening for himself. It is deeply sad that his daughter is not rising to the need; were they close and got along, or are there problems with that relationship? He seems to have no other relatives wanting to assist him in getting care. If the BIL wanted to help, he would have returned the call you made.
Another issue is, which agency can get past the door even if he refuses entrance. The reason I mentioned contacting so many agencies is that it is surprising what small unique services there are that some agencies know nothing about; those things spring up here and there. Though we had a tremendously huge updated list of a myriad of helping agencies in my department, we often found that upon unusual situations, by making multiple outreach calls for things that did not seem to have an answer, it sometimes brought little known brand new information which helped.
If in your state, Adult Protective Services can enforce an entry into a home where there are such dire suspected circumstances, they would probably do it with law enforcement standing by.
If he EVER says anything about wanting to take his own life; and he has been really close to making like statements; then that is the time that law enforcement can get into the house without his permission; they usually do that with a representative from a psych team to evaluate; it is possible IF there is risk of harm to himself, he would be placed in a GeriPsych Unit for 72 hours or so to assess and help plan for his needs.
NOTE: Harm to himself by the way, also includes the inability to provide for his own care and shelter, such as food, etc. Lack of nutrition and hydration are probably adding to the dynamics. I would not out of hand believe he is drinking four Ensures a day and has a good supply. As it is, even if true, his needs cannot be fully met with only using Ensure. Any reports being made need to be fully detailed including the issue of being a house where hoarding has been a problem issue.
In our state, if person is unable to care for themselves, then APS will make an emergency request to a judge and get a decision to place the person even if the person does not wish to go. (Involuntary.) This is done if there is no other way.
How close to Jack do you live? Are you able to go to his home? You mention he had been seeing the same doctor you do, so there must be some proximity there somewhere. I would by the way, let the doctor know about the details of the situation; the doctor and his nurses are also mandated reporters.
Not surprising neighbors do not step in. Perhaps one or more has made a report and nothing was done. However; if he did not keep up a relationship, there would not be one, and in some settings, neighbors are not always so neighborly.
If he was near me, I sure would be offering my help, but unfortunately that is not the situation.
My guess is, he has no legal papers such as DPOAs; if he becomes unable to care for himself and unable to make his own decisions, then what is left but the state since the daughter is not involved.
You are getting mixed signals from him; some of the time, he has given you some information about his inability to be mobile, even the inability to stand; his recent fall, his not eating, etc.; however, out off fear he does not want anything reported or help to come in, therefore, being human he may be telling you fibs in order to not stir the pot. Perhaps it is not a good thing to tell him you are going to do this or that if he does not reach out to get help; if you do not tell his compromised mind that, he may be more apt to tell you facts. He could fall and sustain fractures and not be able to call for help. Lack of nutrition and hydration could contribute to his physical mobility changes.
This really touches my heart; and what is so deeply sad, is that if he were in a decent care setting, his quality of life would be so much better both physically and mentally. Home is no longer a safe place for him.
By the way, Home Health is not the appropriate agency; they can do nothing for him. And it is true, he does not have to let them in. So; no use to try and use that as a stop gap. Even if HH could get in, he needs assistance on a 24 hour level, seven days a week in a house that desperately needs to be cleared of debris. They too, at HH, are mandated reporters, so they would make an APS contact if they witnessed such a situation.
Do you know what his finances are like? Would he need Medicaid? Wonder if bills are getting paid - especially since he cannot get to his mailbox; again, no way to know the truth of whether bills are really being paid or not. Somehow, since he and his wife were reported for hoarding before; he may be fearful of being reported again and the city or county stepping in. No way to know; just guessing.
And Zelda . . . . that poor little being that has no choice but to rely on a highly compromised person who mostly keeps her in a crate in a debris ridden house and does nothing to provide a quality of life for her. No way to know the truth of what is factually happening with her either. Boy; sure wish she would be rescued and in time, gain a loving and nurturing home.
With no family or significant other stepping in, the only result appears to be a waiting tragedy. While statements can be made that he wants to die, he has the right to die, this is NOT the way to look at things at this point, as this is preventable. Horribly, deeply depressed and lacking basic care; that can be changed. What a shame.
Haven't time to go back and edit, so please excuse any typos or grammer faults or line of thought errors.
J.
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Jo C - the additional information you shared here (news to me, anyway) really does change things. Does not sound like there is much dignity, clarity, or ability to reason involved. I hope the initial calls that Lorita plans to make, are helpful and that the appropriate agency/ies will be able to assess and address appropriately.0
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Judith and everyone, I consider it a burden if someone becomes conflicted and has to wonder what to do, and to feel bad about trying to help. I have been in this same situation with my aunt and now with my neighbor. My aunt was oriented but couldn't do anything for herself or her five cats. One cat fell out of an open window from the fifth floor and was killed. My aunt fell and was not found for a few days. In the past she had refused help but the decision was taken from her after the authorities got involved. It was a burden for all the nieces who had tried to help because a catastrophe happened that could have been avoided.
I have a neighbor whose husband died two years ago. She told me she fully expected to join him within a month or so. She gave me her key so I could be the one to find her dead body. I consider that to be a burden on me! Two years later she is still here. She has fallen a few times. She has a Medic Alert pendant but doesn't wear it. I told her to carry her cell phone in her pocket. She does not have dementia, she is just set in her ways. I have a couple of people to notify if she is dead but if she is injured she says she doesn't want to go to the hospital. She always refuses when I suggest the ER or urgent care. I spent a great deal of anxiety thinking about what I should do if she got injured or got sicker than she usually is. This is also a burden on me. She also has a little dog that she got while her husband was ailing and mostly bedbound because he wanted another dog. She can't walk the dog, the dog uses pee pads.
I accept that people have a right to make their own decisions. But if they involve other people who do not have the authority to do anything, I think that is asking too much. I'm trying not to be in this position of putting anxiety on other people.
This is an extremely sensitive topic; but there is no other place to discuss this--what to do about solo older adults who can no longer take care of themselves. I think about this every day. To tell the truth, I'm just a few steps away from my aunt and Jack. The difference is I am more ambulatory.
Iris
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Good morning
46F, 8C. Very pretty day yesterday. Got to set on the porch and listen to the birds. Giving rain for today.
Well guess we will have to agree to disagree. Was in a patient’s room years ago and there was a vase of pretty flowers. Went over to look at them and the tag on it was from her DIL and openly displayed. It said I am so glad that years ago we agreed to disagree. I thought how nice. Have never forgot that and thought how nice that was for everyone involved. Some of us look at things very differently depending on our life experiences. We may all look out of a different window.
Lorita I called squad for mom, she refused. That was ok, it comforted me just knowing that there was a record that I tried and what her choice was.
Butterfly glad you are getting to sleep in a little.
Iris I’m so very sorry. I’m more than a couple of steps away as far as I know but definitely at some point I could be there in their shoes too. I’m very aware of that. Also know I have a source of help in God. He has helped me through many rough times, still rough but turns out ok. So I lean on that. Understand how you feel burdened by your neighbor, especially as dealing with your own problems. My sister died when she was 37. My uncle who had health problem mentioned that people think dying young is bad, but he mentioned how bad it was getting old. His mom died when he was a baby. He also mentioned that even at his age he wished he had known his mother and that t still brought him sadness. My sister left a newborn and a two year old. Life is not easy a lot of the time, but there is some pleasure too.
Take care everyone
Was cleaning up and thinking about my mom. This thought came to me, have no idea if it would work or not. So decided to add it. Just had a thought that maybe this would work for Jack. Would Jack be willing to accept hospice? Believe they can be asked to evaluate him without a referral. He could be in NH with hospice I believe. Know you can be here in Ohio anyways. Two people I have helped have been in that situation. Both of them improved and got out of hospice actually. That way he could get some comfort hopefully yet let nature take it’s course, whatever that may be, if that is his wish. The first lady ended back up in NH with hospice at end. J has remained in NH and off of hospice for quite a little while now. Just a thought.
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So much love here....
Illness/frailty/death.....topics all to real to us as we age. This has always been a safe place to discuss them.
I have a not so serious situtaion fall upon me yesterday. Preface; everyone within range has been told, more than once, to please forget that I have a cell phone because of my hearing but that I check email throughout the day.Yesterday I did look at the cell. A group text announcing an engagement party for my granddaughter was going to be 6/18 in St Louis. I immediatedly made "cheap" plane reservations for me and my 2 grandsons. Yes, they can be cancelled and likely will be.
The boys will likely drive. I will likely not go. That is based on how busy the weekend will be, crowd size logistics etc. I think the anxiety will be too much and I do no want others having to look after me. Iris, that burden thing.
Well, a cloud decended. I thought of all the wonderful times and the ensueing end of them beginning. It was very sad but life does end.
I do not feel like mine is over but it is slowing down. I will absolutely attend her wedding but this, probably not.
Now as to Jack. He is in a terrible position. Might he feel better if his conditions changed? Maybe but let us not forget that he might not be able to afford to live in a facility and if someone came to the house they might well report it and he might be forced to leave with no where to go. At any age that is harsh. Death may be a prefered option and really, in my mind, not unreasonable.
It is sad too about Zelda but the future is grim for her too but a rescue might be possible.
Perhaps all one can do is listen to Jack...let him know that he is being heard....that his pain is real. We all here know about that kind of valadation.
I think there are times when all we can do is to make a person feel real/acknowledged.
Lorita...it is wonderful that he has you listening...you are a true blessing.
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Morning,
It's cloudy, cool and rainy here this morning. Got the trash down just after 7 and then opened the gates so April and her mom could come out into the pasture. Several of the girls were still in the barn - many of them way down by the county line. April was standing in the cowshed doorway with her mom having breakfast. It rained shortly after that. I might not have let them out if I knew it was going to rain more. When it rained and we had little ones out Charles would always say they were getting a bath. I'm always reluctant to let them out but I'm going to have to let go of that. Everyone else lets (has to) their little ones out in the pastures from birth.
I just talked with Jack. He actually sounds pretty good. I don't think his ability to think or make decisions is compromised. He's just a stubborn man that wants what he wants. It was the same with Patsy - she would not consent to go to the hospital. He was able to get them to take her one time but the last time, just before she passed away, she would have nothing of it. I talked with her and tried my best to convince her to go. She was ready and had told me even weeks or months before that she wasn't going to make it to her 80th birthday - and she didn't quite make it to her 79th. Jack is feeling the same way - I think he wants to pass away right where he is. Seems that hsi only worry is about Zelda and people not knowing about her being in the other room.
I don't know for sure the condition of their home - never been there and don't really know how to get there. He lives maybe 20-30 minutes away in a small community of just houses. He's about as far from town as I am although he's closer to a different little town. Jo, they weren't reported for hoarding, it was Patsy and Jack's idea to have the removal done. No one had been in the house before that I don't think. I was under the impression they were going to clear out the whole house but it turned out it was only the kitchen and LR that was done. I do believe Jack is still not able to sleep in the bed - both of them had been sleeping in their recliners for a long time.
He says he's had a boost this morning. I didn't press him about anything - just casually asked questions. I feel a couple of different ways: that it's the person's right to deal with his own health issues as they want as long as they're competent but also feel that something needs to be done to help. If I call and don't get an answer I will request a welfare check but at that time it might be too late. My thing when I call someone early in the morning is saying "are you up and at 'em"? He said he was up but not so much at 'em.
You're right - Johnny doesn't want to get involved. Not sure if the number I have is a cell phone or home phone. They (both Jack and Patsy) had been pretty close with Johnny but something happened (not sure what) that drove a wedge between them. Not my business so didn't ask about it. He only lives a couple of streets over from Jack so he could be of help.
Jack did say a few days ago that he was thinking about going into a NH setting so I may pursue that. I told him to not wait too long to call (might not be an available bed) so maybe he'll do that. Remember when Patsy was in there he was going to give the NH their house, car and all their money so he could just move in with her. Patsy took care of discouraging that.
I don't like to meddle in another person's affairs - I know how I'd feel if someone was pushing me to do something I didn't want to do. Maybe it's his right to pass away in the house where he and Pat lived - and just as she did. No one would know except he wouldn't answer the phone when I called and then I'd have a welfare check done to see if he was okay.
Iris and Sara - it is a responsibility that maybe one person shouldn't have over another but in this case there's no one else nearby. I doubt it would help if I called his daughter. This is sad to say but both of them have told me the reason they came back to Oklahoma was to get away from her because she caused so much turmoil in their lives. They both loved her, of course, being their only child but seemed like she had problems that were too much for them to deal with. I think he calls her almost every day and he does visit with a friend they had in California and someone he knows in Connecticut.
I'm going to reread all your posts and try to decide what to do. I so appreciate all the suggestions and comments. It's a hard thing to be placed in a position like this. One thing I think is getting that new phone and having problems learning how to use it may have contributed to this - how, I don't know, but it may be. I would be the same way trying to learn how to use a new phone. When we're at this age I don't think we like change - I know I don't.
It's sad to think that being of the age of most of us that we have to think about things like this, especially if there's no one else to do it. I feel like I've made some plans but there are other things I need to get done. I could be in the exact position of Jack. Butterfly, I can see your point of view very plainly - thinking of the loss of decision making and independence is hard for anyone but unless we have family to take over, it will come to each of us, in time. This is not a pleasant thought either. I told him I'd call again after while so we'll see how he is then - maybe he'll be thinking differently.
Again, all of you are good friends so just wanted your points of view and thoughts. Not a pleasant thing to talk about, I know Not much is pleasant about growing old and being alone. Patsy's mother had a really funny saying about the golden years - so wish I could remember it. If I do intervene, who should I call first - Sheriff's Dept.? Ours is a County without many resources - we do have the Eastern Okla. Area on Aging - located in another County.
Still haven't been able to see if the driveway alarm works - no one has been by it since I installed it - except me - and, of course, the receiver is in the house. Guess I could ask the cats if it went off - but everyone's asleep right now.
I'll be back - going to reread your posts.
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EODD services the county Jack lives in...tha would be my first call to get some input on what is available.
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Good morning,
47F, 8C. We had a mist all day yesterday and one short thunderstorm. Giving more rain tomorrow.
Cleaned house yesterday. I’m slowly cleaning my windows inside. Hope to get my nephew to come over when nice out and watch me do the outside lol. My house sets into a knoll. Some of my windows are kind of high up in back even though it’s a ranch. Don’t like to be on ladder with no one around. He told me he would do it. Said well I’ll watch the ladder, we’ll see.
Judith I find too that I’m much slower than I used to be and don’t have energy as I use to have. Didn’t use to think a thing about taking off to Columbus or even Cleveland. Now I hate if I have to do that. Don’t feel I can think quick enough anymore. Causes me to make different choices than I might have made in past. Have always said I want to age gracefully. Hope I do that. Not complaining, I’m still able to do a lot, just know it’s different.
Was hungry for chicken and dumplings. Thought instead of buying chicken I would make beef stew and put dumplings on top. Made it Sunday and wasn’t real impressed. Dumplings a little dry. Maybe should have added a little more broth. But had left overs. Ate some yesterday and tasted better, were more moist, was a pleasant surprise.
Made corn tortillas again yesterday. Definitely like them better right off the pan. Now will have to work on learning to crisp them up. Flour tortillas store nicely for a week. With corn better to make dough and leave it in refrigerator til ready to eat them then fry them. I’m learning.
Guess I will do a little running around today and finish up Thursday. Tomorrow the plumber is coming and he will be here a few hours. Also giving high winds and rain tomorrow. Maybe I will plant my tomato and pepper seeds tomorrow if things work out. If it is nice enough, might get some lettuce, greens etc. sowed too in some of my grow bags. Have plenty of seeds so if they don’t sprout or gets cold later can resow. My onion plants need to be set out too. Crabgrass preventer needs to be put down too lol. It’s wet almost every day so will just have to be patient.
Hope each one has a peaceful day.
Take care everyone
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Had my pork chops cooked with the dried baby Lima beans last night and the chops were so tender that when they saw the fork coming they fell apart. Sister enjoyed my meal last night a d good thing a out it is leftovers helps with next meal. Also received gift cards for Outback and red Lobster so will take her and Lou out to eat some.
Lorita, you said Jack lived in a small community with only houses. My experence with small communities is that everyone knows most of what's going on, surely some neighbors would let the proper authorities know if needed.
Called a friend that I use to work with to see if we could get together for coffee while my sister is here. He told me one time that a other friend and him still get together every so often for coffee since they retired. I haven't had any so dial life for over 8 years and since my sister is visiting more I'm going to try a d get out some. I've reached out to my Urologist and oncologist about VA disability benefits stating permanent and total disability due to active malignancy and neither were able to tell me more. It baffles me that service connected disability reviews conducted outside local VA hospitals cannot be seen by my Drs. Mental stress is getting to me!
Ron
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Morning,
Another uber windy day. It's cloudy and very humid, so much so that it looks hazy. Good probability of heavy storms later today. Weatherman says there's a cap so that may inhibit the development of storms - really hope so.
Girls have been grazing all night and are just now slowly coming up toward the house. This is feed day so hope they stay around. I'm anxious to see the driveway alarm works if one of the trucks go by the sensor. They're kind of cute - looks like owls and the eyes light up in the house on the receiver.
Well, I think/hope things are being to work out. Jack has relented and is ready to go into the home where Patsy was. His daughter called him yesterday saying she'd been trying to get numbers for private nurses for him - he told her not to bother - that it was being taken care of. He's also ready to give up Zelda so I'll call Kate today and see if they can pick her up. He says he'll really miss her. So, that's my job for today - getting in contact with NH and animal shelter. I hope there's an available bed - they have 100 so there's hope. He sounded much better when I talked with him. We'll see how this works out.
I'll stop for now and try to stop the girls from drifting away too far. It's about time for them to get here to feed. I'll be back later.
Sara - sound like you're in full throttle into your gardening. Hope you have a good year and good harvest all summer.
Ron, I don't understand either. I've been away from the VA for 27 years so things have really changed. Hope you get some answers.
Did any of you all watch the Country Music Awards show last night? I didn't but saw some clips from it this morning. Looks like the ladies were having a contest to see who could wear the shortest/lowest cut dresses. I saw one that looked like she'd thrown a towel over her shoulders. What happened to the big hair and frilly dresses?
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Good morning, All,
It's cold 28d and snowing at my house. I was wanting to go get some groceries today but looks like I will pass on that for a few days.
Lorita. That is real good news about Jack, hopefully he does not change his mind. I hope it's not too late to find a forever home for Zelda. Looks like Jack has finally realized he can't do this alone. What happens to a person's house and things? will that be something his daughter has to deal with? You are such a good and caring person, hopefully when Jack is placed you will be more relaxed. I did not realize that Jack was 86 he will be much happier in a NH where someone will be taking care of him. He needs to feel spoiled, hopefully he will allow that to happen. Dan loved all the attention the girls gave him. He was spoiled.
Lorita. One time when Dan fell down and I had to call 911 for help picking him up. They came got him up took his vitals and sat him on the bed. Dan was sitting lopsided on the bed like he was going to fall over. They ask him if he wanted to go to the hospital and he said No. I was shaking my head Yes but I did not have POA so they would not take him. They laid him down covered him up and left. I was so worried after they left. Shortly after that I got all the papers, I needed to make these kinds of decisions.
Ron. Your pork chops and beans sound Yummy. I have added that to my grocery list. Sounds like you plan on getting out more when your sister comes to visit. That will be a good thing for you to do. Enjoy your dinner out plans with the girls.
Jo. Thank you for your last post that was a lot of good info for all of us to be reminded of. I appreciate your advice. I also like the glass bottles. Usually around the holidays I find the old Coak a Cola, bottles so I always have to have some I don't drink pop, but I will if I find those.
All of you Gardners I hope you get some good weather soon so you can plant. Iam not a gardener but I do plant a few flowers and sometimes they do good. My weather is very unpredictable we can have a warm day and drop to freezing at night.
Have a good day, Hugs Zetta
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Gosh, Zetta, snow? What's the date of the latest snow or freeze up there? Ours is already passed. In fact, this morning it's gotten warmer as the day has gone on. It's soooo windy though. There is a chance we may luck out and not have storms today and tonight. I hope so. Springtime in Oklahoma can be scary. I know I spent my share of time in the cellar when I was growing up.
I have one yellow tulip! It's been blooming for at least three days. Late yesterday I was past it and it had closed up - didn't know they did that. I had yellow tulips on both sides of the daffodils and in front of a rose but the cows ate them before they bloomed last year - guess they missed this one. My tree I've been watching has finally begun to bud - so glad of that.
I've made calls, several of time, so know what has to be done tomorrow. Jack has said he needs one more day to get ready and just enjoy the last day at home. Talked to Kate about Zelda so, hopefully, she can pick her up tomorrow. Jack's daughter called and we had a good conversation. She's worried about her dad which is natural.
Just seeing the US weather map - so many colors - tornados, blizzards and everything else.
I think I'll take a nap this afternoon. I woke up about 4 and only slept about another hour after that. Toad came and fed this morning and the driveway alarm works - lots of music and flashing lights. Now when Stormy goes to the window and barks I won't have to get up and see what's out there - I'll know if it's a car. Think I may change the alert sound though.
Stay inside, Zetta, and enjoy the, hopefully, last day of snow for the season.
Jo and everyone else, thanks so much for the advice and suggestions - helped so much. Just glad Jack has finally realized he needs help.
Back later.
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You have been a good and faithful friend for Jack, Lorita; so kind and compassionate of you. It is a heartbreaking situation. The poor man is 86 years old, too hard to do much for himself at this stage from what has physically happened to him. SO wish someone had been able to go into his house. Based on professional experience, I would bet things are a bit worse than it seems by the telephone contact. I base those feelings not only from what had been Posted, but also by what I experienced as an RN, Administrator of Patient Care Services for many years. Had been a nurse at bedside for quite some time, then advanced to other areas, then actually worked in Case Management working with patients and families for post hospital planning - finished my Master's Degree and advanced to Department Administrator of Patient Care Services where I had discharge planning, case managment, utilization management, social services as well as other departments in my areas of responsibility.
We had every kind of person imaginable that were assisted - from the average to the wealthy; younger, elderly; the homeless, the mentally ill, and those dealing with dementia and all categories in between. It was always a challenge when a patient had no one, when their living situation was deplorable, and access to so many things was strongly compromised and almost impossible especially when finances were nil.
Loved my job. Oh, the stories I could tell, the good, the bad and the ugly; including the miracles, but also some of elder abuse and so much more. I really loved the patients and learned a lot from them and loved working directly with the physicians. Lovely stories from that too.
I will never forget one very elderly man (no dementia) who was admitted to the hospital who was dehydrated and malnourished; he lived alone, had no family or friends and could no longer manage. He had been admitted during the afternoon and our staff was to see him the next morning to let him know we were going to help him. Sadly; that night, he kept a glass drinking glass off his dinner tray and after hours during night shift he broke the glass under the sheet and proceeded to cut both his wrists - he died during the night with no one being aware. How despairing he must have felt.
Since Jack is suddenly relenting and agreeing to care, please do keep contact with him so he feels connected - this is a delicate time.
My recall re Patsy and Jack was how resistant she was to going to the hospital and how very close she came to dying and how badly her diabetes was out of control. I do recall a health care provider going to the house; I think to assess it - may have been a Home Health Rep . . . the house as I recall was considered a hazard for Patsy and there was more or less a mandate that the hoarding had to be dealt with for her to be able to be home successfully due to health risk as well as being a fall risk. Both of them were sleeping in the living room in their chairs as the bedroom could not be accessed because of the debris. Only a small bit of the house was dealt with and it became too much for them, and I think it was Patsy as well as Jack who stopped any more being done. It had to have been a struggle to keep themselves going when Patsy was so sick as she was the one who usually made most of their decisions and that was when Jack was in better shape. So unfair that in life one ends up with no backup support; it happens to so many. Depression and anxiety are part of the hoarding mechanism as can be, OCD.
https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/hoarding-basics
I feel a person has the right to not continue on with any kind of heroic measures to lengthen their life. I am not in favor of suicide unless terminally ill and facing painful distress with nothing to be done. However, I do feel that the person should not die in distress living alone with no assistance, no way to help themselves, not able to get up and walk, no food, falling, hygiene severely compromised, etc. Comfort care at home would be the thing. Money . . . does one have the funds, another question; does he have sufficient assets. At the bottom of much of what happened is that IF the person had been willing and able to see their physician, help may have been had. Perhaps he would have been prescribed a low level antidepressant which could make all the differerence. Tis now water under the bridge so to speak.
So; he has made a decision at this point in time to enter a care facility. Wonder if he will need Medicaid. Patsy as I recall was there for post acute care which Medicare would have covered, Jack is not in that category. Once he reaches out his hand, then assistance will begin to fall into place. I suppose our Lorita will be the one to do the contacting of the NH as well as Zelda's rescuers. Wonder if he does have a DPOA?
So hoping and praying that Jack really will get into care for his physical and psychological comfort; will feel secure, and that the setting will provide good care, compassion and kindness, and that he will have socialization and activity as much as he wishes or does not wish and that the food will be of benefit and he will be able to have light enter his life again for the time he has remaining. He can sign Advance Directives and let it be known he prefers to be a DNR if something happens. I wish there would be people he knows who could visit him in the NH. If his condition warrants, he may be able to qualify for Hospice care.
And little Zelda; may she be adopted by a loving forever home and have a life of love and contentment, tummy rubs and doggie treats and lots of cuddles and playing with her new family.
This is so very hard. May Jack find things much better with care than he could have imagined and that he comes to feel secure and safe and cared about.
Guess I have once again talked this to bits. Been quite concerned for him. Many blessings and warm wishes are being sent his way - he has invisible friends here that he knows nothing about, all sending silent heartfelt support.
Perhaps, after he gets to care, we could possibly find a way to send cards to him at intervals and sign them, "from friends of, (your name)," and he would enjoy the thoughts. Just an idea.
Thank you for being the deeply caring person you are Lorita, you are awesome.
J.
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Hi,
We're about to blow away here in Oklahoma. Wind gusts to 67 mph in the Panhadle - up to 45 in eastern Okla. They're still not sure if we'll have storms tonight - hopefully the cap will hold and we won't. There was baseball-sized hail in places yesterday - don't want that. Only one time, back in the 80s have I seen hail that big. A neighbor and I were commuting and that day I happened to be driving. There was a blinding rainstorm which flooded the road we were going to drive down. I stopped at a neighbor's house and we went inside. It hailed just as we got there and there were huge hail stones and so much rain. I called daddy (Charles couldn't have gotten there) and he came and picked us up in a PU (I was driving a car). Carol's husband (not the Carol I talk about) came another way and got her. Gets hairy out here sometimes.
Thank you, Jo, I'm only doing what anyone else would do. I do hope ti works out. I've talked with Kate two or three times and she'll come and pick up Zelda tomorrow and take her to the Red Dirt Boxer Rescue where she'll be rehabilitated (guess you'd call it that) - anyway, socialized and be cared for until she finds a new home. Jack will leave Zelda in the yard and Kate says she'll make friends with her and get her into the vehicle or into a cage to get her to the shelter. Jack says she's friendly.
I feel so sorry for Jack knowing this will be the last day and night he'll spend in the house he and Patsy shared for 30 years. He just needed this time after he'd made his decision. He called this afternoon (we've talked a few times today) to ask what he should take. He's gotten some clothes together to take because he won't be home again.
From what he says the house is pretty bad. It was Patsy who was a hoarder but he let her do what she wanted and then became overwhelmed with all of it.
He doesn't have a key for the garage or the door that leads into the house but he can lock the front door. The plan is I'll call the ambulance in the morning to take him to the ER, then call them to let them know why he's coming. After he's evaluated they'll fax the report to the NH and she'll decide if they can care for him. Or - he may be admitted if there's a need for it. If he can be admitted to the NH an ambulance will take him to the NH. I've talked with more people that I can think of and this is how it should go. It may well be that he'll be admitted and that might be good - for a while.
He has funds - but the admission lady at the NH said his insurance and Medicare will pay the first 100 days, then it'll be private pay. I was thinking maybe $5,000 a month - it'll be that plus $200. He has funds for quite some time and after that he'll go on Medicaid. As for the house, I'll contact a realtor - maybe they can get the home cleaned up and sell it so he'll have more funding. I imagine realtors do that so they'll make more money on the sale - we'll see. The house is three bedroom, two baths - about 1700 sq. ft.- a nice looking brick home. I wish there was a neighbor who could keep an eye on the place after he leaves - but there isn't.
Just think how you'd feel (I've thought about that this afternoon) if you were alone, not well and knew this would be the last day and night you'd be able to spend in your home and that you'd lose your pet - the only company you've had since losing your loved one. I hope that never happens to any of us but we never know what tomorrow will bring. It makes me cry to even think of it.
News just said 25 million people in Shanghai are confined to their homes because of the virus with the police driving the streets checking to make sure people are inside. They're trying to deliver food to those people who are almost without. This is just about where things were over two years ago - and people have quit wearing masks and being careful. Hope this is not a sign of things to come.
I hope all of this turns out well for Jack. I know after he gets settled in he'll be happier with people around and not having to worry about Zelda or himself and he'll be safe. And, there's his car to be dealt with. Just think - less than two weeks ago he was driving and going into town. I wonder what happened - maybe the hospital will find out. He told me that he had wished he'd pass away in his sleep but has come to the realization that this will not happen so he has decided it's best to go into the NH.
The card thought is great - maybe we can do that. I know he'd enjoy reading them. I did talk with his daughter a couple of times (her phone kept cutting off so she'd call back). She's having so much pain in her head that she cannot deal with anything else right now.
Prayers that things will go okay tomorrow and he'll be admitted it there's a need or the NH will accept him if hospitalization isn't needed.
I'll let all of you know when I do. I'll talk with him again once or twice before bedtime. Breaks my heart for him and for any of us who might have this happen to them.
An autistic four-year old boy has been lost for over 24 hrs. in Oklahoma. The little boy was only wearing a diaper. People have been out looking for him since he disappeared - on foot and on horseback. He lives pretty close to a huge lake and in a wooded area. I don't know how this happened - probably just wandered off from his house.
Joan - heard Colorado is having some snow - is it east of you? Also heavy snows up north and, Beth, Iowa has a tornado warning. Hope it's not near you.
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Not much happening here. Still no pathology report, but now I'm of the opinion that they may be waiting for other things to come back before they say what it is? A test result appeared in my chart from the cytogenetics lab - the pathologist apparently sent out a sample to them to rule out a genetic rearrangement found in Ewing sarcoma - that was negative so I guess it's not that. I had no idea that was even a possibility. I have to take the car to the shop tomorrow so I'll try to call again to see if the regular path report is back.
Travel still exploding, people are going everywhere, we are busier than ever.0 -
Hi Lorita, the info you got from the NH person was not accurate. IF Jack is in the hospital for three 24 hour inpatient days, then he can be sent to a NH for skilled care rehab - BUT: Make sure you ask the ER doc to have him made an INPATIENT rather than an outpatient as outpt. days do not count for getting three 24 hour hospital days to skilled care; only inpatient days. Hospitals often prefer that Medicare pts be outpatient as it gives certain benefits to the facility.
The big concern is that hospitals can make him an outpt on any day even if he was there for two weeks or so. He would need those three 24 hour inpt. days if is to go to rehab to try and strengthen and mobilize him again. It is really important that you check with the hospital admitting dept or the business dept EACH day to ensure he is still carried as in inpatient as they can change his status retrospectively.
If you are up to it, you could have him put you on his hospital admission papers as his contact if he is admitted.
If admitted, I would call the case manager who will do his discharge planning and let her/him know what the tentative plans are for his discharge.
NOTE: Medicare pays for skilled care rehab days. The entire benefit of that is up to 100 days, but Lorita, never do the patient's stay in skilled care for 100 days except in the very rarest of complex circumstances; almost never happens. There are criteria and laws that monitor that for Medicare. Average rehab days would be about two weeks give or take if he is able to tolerate the P.T. After the rehab he then becomes custodial care and they would need the first month fee up front.
Holy horse feathers, who will take care of his finances for him???? Big issue, he will need that for his NH costs/billings as well as medical co-pays, medicine, and goodness; for maintaining the house until such time it is sold. Someone will have to access his finances and see if bills have been paid and then monitor his accounts for him - IF they have access to the accounts.
If someone knows a good real estate office, they often know investors or investor groups that will buy a problem house and rehab it then sell it at a profit. They often really lowball the amount they will pay.
Wonder if the daughter would be capable of coming out to help with the business end of the house - very often when the scent of money is in the air, family suddenly begins to materialize.
If wanting to get Jack's ducks in a row, getting an elder law attorney to go to Jack's location at the hospital to see him would not be a bad idea; paperwork could get done, DPOAs put into place. You could even be on the phone and have a phone conference so you will know what the atty tells him. If Jack has money, there are Geriatric Care Managers who can help manage and oversee everything, most elder law attorneys know these professionals, but they are not free. Jack needs someone looking out for him and the matters to be managed. You can have yourself listed as a contact person if you and he wish; seems daughter may not be capable of dealing with the dynamics. Geriatric Care Managers can even manage finances.
Will the dog rescuer give you updates on Zelda and let you know when she has been adopted and by what type of family? That would be nice for Jack to know as well as for us too.
Lots on your plate, but if an elder law atty gets things set to rights, it should make everything easier going forward.
What would you think if he asked you to be his DPOA?
Keep us posted about Jack; as you can see, we really care about him and hope for a great improvement in his quality of life.
J.
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Hi,
Day, seems like it's taking a long time for the path report to be back. How is your hand - is it healed and do you still have pain? Hopefully, you'll get some news tomorrow.
Jo - my goodness gracious - too much to think about. I can't handle his finances - have enough to even handle mine. He seems to be able to do it right now - even got his property taxes paid a few days ago. I doubt there's anything like a geriatric care manager around here. Living in the hinterland, as one of my old bosses would say, we don't have everything that people living in cities do. But, maybe if he's admitted the social worker will know someone. If Joe was still practicing law he might do something like that. He does use an attorney in town, so that might be a possibility.
His daughter would be of no help whatsoever. Patsy had always told me that and so does Jack. Right now he says she's fixated on his money but he's not going to let that happen. He seems cognizant about what's going on - but I think he's overwhelmed at the same time. If he can just get into the NH maybe he can improve. I don't know.
If he's admitted to the hospital, how can they say he's an outpatient but I will check. I'm wondering if they might admit him. He says he has a swollen place where he fell the other day - lower rib cage so he may have fractured something. I told him to be sure to tell them about that - and I will also when I talk to the person in the ER.
When he called a while ago I asked him where Zelda was and she's inside. I said "why don't you let her be in the room with you tonight?" He said he couldn't do that. I just thought for the last night what harm could she do. He says he'll miss her but won't worry about her. Guess he has too much to worry about without that.
I don't know (of course) if the fall had something to do with all of this or if worrying about trying to learn how to use the phone did or what happened. Maybe we'll find out something tomorrow.
I'm used to dealing with the VA and never have learned much about private hospitalizations, medicare or Medicaid or social security. The VA took care of everything and this all seems so disjointed - scattered - just too many things to consider. Charles was never on SS and neither have I. Lots of ins and outs. He did tell me he has three different insurance coverages plus medicare - seems like Patsy only had medicare and AARP.
No telling how all of this will turn out - what if the NH won't admit him and he's not admitted to the hospital? Just hoping and praying things will work out to his advantage. We all know he can't stay at home alone. The admissions person at the NH told me the only reason they couldn't admit him was if his care was more than they could handle.
Everything just seems too complicated and complex. But, I do thank you all for the information and telling me things to consider and think about. We'll see how it turns out. I will let you know as soon as I know something.
Beth, my head is really spinning now. Saw on the news there's tornado warnings in Iowa - be careful.
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Ron, hope you and Lou are okay and safe from the storms. You, too. Beth.0
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Good morning
61F, 16C. Giving rain today.
Was a warm sunny day yesterday. Got my crab grass preventer down. Don’t like using that stuff. Going to try and work on getting my grass thicker in the area where I have trouble with it so hopefully won’t have to use it at some point. My front yard was a bit wet, splashed on my leg a bit in a place or two.
Oh boy Zetta, snow. We can get big snows in April. The good thing is they usually melt pretty quickly.
Lorita you have been so kind and compassionate with Jack. You didn’t rush anything and had compassion for his feelings. Stepped in and helped when he was ready. Was thinking yesterday just what you said. Jack probably thought he was dying and was just going to stay home and die. After a few days he realized that was not to be and had to go to a different plan. Pray things will work out for your and his sake, and you will have time to relax a little. It makes me very sad too Lorita, know how I would feel. Makes me sad that probably no one will visit him. My Aunt is so blessed that a lady comes every other week and takes her to get her hair taken care of and then they go to McDonalds. My aunt looks so forward to that. Know Theresa loved me taking her to store and out to eat. Makes them still feel a little human. If there is some way I could help Jack would be glad to. You might ask him once things are settled if he would like for us to send him things.
Jack could get an attorney to help him if one available, have seen them come to the hospital an help patient get things in order. After my aunt retired a lady in a NH hired her to just be a companion. The attorney paid my aunt but it was at the lady’s direction. The lady was in a situation much like Jack. I believe the realtors would also work with Jack. You can even sell a house as is, may get less but the people that buy clean it up.
Day good to hear from you. Maybe your hand is quite the puzzle. When we were busy at work we would say it’s job security.
Plumber coming today.
A week from tomorrow I have found a volunteer job. Hope I like it, I’m looking forward to it. I’m volunteering at a small local hospital that is close to my house. She said she had 25 volunteers before pandemic and only 6 now. One of those 6 is in a scooter. She asked me if I had a problem with him training me. Told her no, it sounded like it would be good for him and me. She wants me to work Tuesdays and Thursday’s. Told her I would try two days and see how it goes. She didn’t say how many hours but she did say that some volunteer had died, some had developed health problems but many wouldn’t come back because they didn’t want to wear a mask all day. I will try and keep an eye out for any Covid surge and may get my second mRNA booster at that time. Believe that will then be the end of anymore vaccines for me unless see data to change my mind. Those with 3 mRNA have 90% protection against severe outcome. A J&J with one mRNA have 78% so feel one more might not be a bad idea especially this fall if I haven’t gotten one by then.
Take care everyone
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I'm encouraged to read about the progress with Jack - and of course Zelda. Fingers crossed he puts her outside and the shelter comes to make friends and take him somewhere where she can learn how to make friends with people and other animals. That would be the best for her and for Jack.
I had a dog named Nita who passed away of old age a few years ago - I adopted her after she was an adult from a very small shelter who told me she had been given up during a crisis by the owner, who had a hoarded house and about 40 cats and Nita and another dog. Her foster mother gave me her email address and asked me to update her every once in a while on how she was doing. She was some type of chihuahua mix, but she was about 20 pounds, with the chihuahua face and just the sweetest little girl. When she was 14 (or thereabouts, you never really know with the sketchy history) I had to put her down and when I emailed the foster mother she sent me back a lovely thank you for caring for her and giving her a loving home for 12 years.
My hand looks fine. I've been putting a scar salve on the incision and it's healing up nicely. No pain at all, just sometimes feels a little tight and so I put on more salve to keep things loose. I don't have to go back unless of course the mass turns out to be something more than what I think it is. I just think they are ruling out the more serious possibilities and then they'll settle with whatever is left (kind of like how dementia is diagnosed) so I'm not worried too much. I'll call over there when they open today because I'm getting my oil changed and tires rotated so I'll certainly have time to kill in the waiting area.
Thanks, Lorita, for doing all that work to try to help Jack and Zelda. I'm excited to have Zelda be able to have either human or canine companionship in the future and be able to move and sit wherever she would like in her remaining time here on earth. As far as Jack, I say it a lot but sometimes things need to be a catastrophe before some people will accept any change in life and it sounds like he's there. You may see him perk up once he gets socialized as well! My mother was a huge introvert her whole life and when I placed her I agonized over it and was shocked when she seemed interested in the other people at the NH - even just people-watching. She made sure she was out in the common areas to see who was doing what and only went to her room for a nap or bathroom.
Let me go shower so I don't offend at the dealership! Talk to you all later!0 -
Lorita, sure do understand not overwhelming yourself with trying to manage another person's finances, etc. It may well be that a good step in getting matters together would be for an attorney; especially an elder law attorney, to consult with Jack and put protections into place for him. Attorneys will see patients in their homes , in the hospital and in nursing homes. As long as the client is able to understand what is being done, the elder law attorney can be helpful in establishing protections and much needed guidance. He would need protection so that he is not taken advantage of, even by someone in the NH. Wonder if he has frozen his information in the three credit reporting agencies so no one can gain his information to do financial mischief.
An attorney can protect him from family or outside person assaults on his finances, protect him regarding the sale of the house, put needed documents into place for Jack's protection now and in the future, make an Advance Directive document for end of life issues, do DPOAs if possible, and most elder law attorneys know of Geriatric Care Managers, etc. One must just be cognizant of attorney fees; some are sensible average, others can be pretty high; have to screen them too.
By the way, Oklahoma University has an entire certification program for Care Managers. Here is a link:
https://nursing.ouhsc.edu/Care-Management
If I knew what city Jack lives in, I could do some poking around to find out what is available in his area re Geriatric Care Management.
If I recall correctly, the NH Jack is considering is private pay only. One would have to hope he has sufficient funds for his future. Otherwise, when out of private pay funds they would move him. If one has an advisor or Care Manager they could be on top of the finances and help to guide his care needs and quality of care.
Would be lovely if a way could be found for Jack to have kind visitors. Some churches have people that volunteer to do this even if the one needing visitation is not a member of the church. Since I was working, I actually paid a lovely person to visit my LO several afternoons a week to kind of fill in for me not being there as often as I wanted to be.
Now the Medicare "thing."
Sure do understand your being perplexed with Medicare. The big Medicare debacle with inpatient versus outpatient status: All of us who are of Medicare age really need to pay attention to this. Some years ago, the feds controlling Medicare approved the ability of hospitals to make a person an outpatient instead of an inpatient, even if the patient is in the hospital for multiple days - AND - this can be done AFTER the patient has been admitted as an inpatient. The facility can go back and have the patient retrospectively changed from inpt status to outpt. A letter must be given to the patient stating that has been done, but that often goes awry or is not clearly understood.
The physcian is supposed to approve of this, but that too can slide sideways and sometimes indeed does.
The importance of that is; the patient will owe a ton of money because when an outpatient only Part B of Medicare pays; Part A that pays for inpatient care will not pay. It is a nightmare and hospitals receive an advantage for doing that. Some hospitals are notorious for this, others do it in some instances; in any case, the patient is left owing a ton of money to the acute med center and is billed for it.
So . . . we must be sure to state we want to be admitted on an INPATIENT status, and really, it is best to have yourself or a LO check each hospital day to ensure one is still an inpatient and has not been changed to an outpt status. A tremendous disservice to patients. If changed to an outpt., call the doctor and insist they call and make it an inpatient status again.
NOTE: This is even more important since many patients are not followed by their own physician when in the hospital; they are instead followed by a, "Hospitalist," a physician who is contracted by the hospital to follow inpatients and manage their care. One of the dynamics of this person is to also get the patient out of the hospital as soon as possible, and one would not frequently find the Hospitalist fighting admission status nor often, lengths of stay. They see patients, but in reality, work for the facility. Some Hospitalists I have seen have been decent, others were terribly just not in the patient's corner. The hospital benefits from having Hospitalists, and many office based physicians are happy to not have to make hospital rounds due to office overload. I am extremely grateful that our physician still sees his own patients that are hospitalized.
Hospitalists do not know the patient like the personal physician does either medically from over time, psychologically, or the patient's personal home life which can be important, etc. As an RN who has watched this dynamic in multiple med centers, and from one horrendous experience, I have not been a supporter of Hospitalists.
Some Members here have had LOs in the hospital for a week or ten days or so; the LO went to a NH for Skilled Care rehab . . . . BOOM! . . . . it was found out after the transfer to the NH with care, that they were not covered for Skilled Care because they did not have that Medicare three day criteria fulfilled: the person must be on INPATIENT status for three 24 hour days in order to qualify for Skilled Care. Those Members had no idea their LO was not an inpatient. The LOs were then responsible for the entire cost of what care had already been rendered in Skilled Care; some of them into the thousands. Medicare really does need to eliminate that three day qualifying period for Skilled Care.
Back to the main concern. I feel terrible for Jack. How awful for him standing alone in his house knowing he must go. If only I had a magic wand, I would wave it and he would be safe and cared for at home. All the hoarding would be gone so that Jack could have a kind caregiver aide willing to come in and help him stay in his own home by providing his food and care. That would be such a blessing. I certainly can imagine how dreadful to have to put up and leave one's home and everything in it; especially being alone with no support by his side. If this was perfection and there were enough assets, it would be that there would be a care aide and a Elder Care Manager to carry him though his needs to the end of life, secure and content and cared for in his own home.
May not want to have real estate folks come in for a few weeks; Jack could change his mind, reverse course and choose to return home.
Since Jack is now willing to reach out for assistance, do you think he would let Home Health come in with a Social Worker who could assist with this process or is he going to the hospital today? How I wish this could be different and have someone by his side for support.
J.
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Commonly Used Abbreviations
DH = Dear Husband
DW= Dear Wife, Darling Wife
LO = Loved One
ES = Early Stage
EO = Early Onset
FTD = Frontotemporal Dementia
VD = Vascular Dementia
MC = Memory Care
AL = Assisted Living
POA = Power of Attorney
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